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  • jsb
    06-01 09:48 AM
    I think this is a requirement from US government that countries that need a SSA agreement with US needs to have a Social Security system. Asking our SSA and Medicare back is a good strategy which will benefit us one way or other....

    With SSA agreements with other countries, money is not returned to you if/when you leave the US. Contributions you made for similar programs while working in other contries are collectively considered to decide your final benefit at retirement. Having no parallel plan in India it is difficult to have such an arrangment with them.

    Stronger argument would be, why should a guest worker contribute to SSA/Medicare when those programs are for permanent residents/citizens hoping to retire in the US. It should be payable only after getting GC. Of course, in that case, your benefits at retirement would also be lower. Note that your employer also makes an equal contributions to these plans.

    Most of you may already know but let me restate, if you work in the US for 10 yrs, you will get SSA at retirement, no matter if you have GC or not or where you live. There are some exceptions but they don't apply to India/China citizens living in their home countries.

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  • bfadlia
    02-15 04:38 PM
    America is about freedom and liberty and is a law abiding country. Country caps is discrimination with people of two countries which have almost half of the population in the world. I am not saying increase visas for India or China. I am only saying increase the total number of visas and then make the system FIFO so that every skilled person in this world have same access to immigration.

    Finally an honest admission. You finally say there are more Indian and Chinese here because they have huge population.
    If you can't see the insult in keeping to say "best and brightest" then I would have wasted my time.

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  • greencard_fever
    07-25 11:44 AM

    vdlrao i really appreciate you analysis and confidence on feature of EB2..can i know your category and nationality?:D

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  • BharatPremi
    12-13 02:16 PM
    The OP was whether the country quota is constitutional. My interest was to find out if the current laws and regulations are violated by the country quota.
    As lazycis pointed out, SC seems to uphold the current situation.

    I was not looking into arguing in a court whether a particular regulation is fair or not. The law is what it is (what I or you consider fair or unfair is immaterial), question was : Is the law being implemented or not? Seems like it is.

    To change the law, we as IV are lobbying and meeting lawmakers already.

    Unless a constitutional lawyer says otherwise, I see no reason to pursue the country quota in a court, considering lazycis post.

    Yes. As long as it is established as "law" we can not pursue the solution in a court.


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  • vdlrao
    09-15 12:17 PM
    This is the monthwise total for Only PERM for India for year 2005 and 2006.

    Month EB (INDIA) # Approved
    Jan,05 0
    Feb,05 0
    Mar,05 1
    Apr,05 24
    May,05 133
    June,05 535
    July,05 794
    Aug,05 1313
    Sep,05 1316
    Oct,05 1212
    Nov,05 1541
    Dec,05 1771
    Jan,06 1788
    Feb,06 1729
    Mar,06 2224
    Apr,06 1635
    May,06 1876
    June,06 1902
    July,06 1574
    Aug,06 1317
    Sep,06 963

    PERM 2005 (All EB2+EB3) for India is 8640
    PERM upto Sep 2006 (2+3) for india is 15008
    So the movement depends on the spillover to EB2 india. I assume if it is in the range of 15 to 20K then it will move upto mid of 2006 by end of 2010 for sure.

    If the spill over is in the range > 20K to EB2 india then it will go to September 2006.

    How did you say that are Only EB2+ EB3?

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  • meridiani.planum
    07-30 06:31 AM

    posted 07-24 09:59 AM

    Ron Gotcher has some thoughts on India E2 movement over the next two months.

    More and more, I see people posting messages containing the unspoken assumption that since the Indian E2 cutoff date has moved forward, it is likely to move forward further in the coming months. This is a false hope.

    Even with a cutoff date in early 2003, the CIS has sufficient inventory of Indian E2 adjustments on file to use up the remaining inventory of E2 visas for this fiscal year. The reason that the Visa Office advanced the priority date is to move it up to the point where overseas consular posts can take up the slack left by the CIS's inability to close out enough cases and avoid wasting visas this year.

    The CIS inventory of pending cases is massive. If there were no quota at all - if everyone were suddenly "current" - and no new cases were filed after today, it would still take the CIS four to five years to close out all of the pending cases that they already have in their inventory.

    Overseas consular posts maintain inventories of cases as well. When the priority date for a particular case starts to edge forward and it appears that the applicant may become "current' in the not too distant future, the applicant is told to submit all required supporting documents to the post or the NVC. When this is done, the applicant is reported to the Visa Office as being "documentarily qualified." This means that the case is in a position where an immigrant visa can be issued to the applicant as soon as a visa number becomes available.

    The inventory of documentarily qualified cases with current priority dates at a consular post never exceeds that post's ability to process all such cases within sixty days. Consular posts have very high bandwidth processing capabilities. No matter how many cases become current, they are able to process all of them within sixty days.

    The reason that the Indian E2 cutoff date has moved forward is that the Visa Office fears that the CIS will not be able to adjudicate enough adjustment of status applications to exhaust the annual quota. They have advanced the cutoff date in order to make more cases overseas eligible for final processing.

    This means that overseas consular posts have exhausted their inventories of Indian E2 cases with priority dates earlier than 2006 and the Visa Office had to move the cutoff date forward in order to make more cases eligible to be closed out.

    This does not mean that the CIS has closed out all of the pre-2006 cases pending in their inventory. Far from it. When the new fiscal year starts, Indian E2 is likely to retrogress back to late 2002 or early 2003. This is roughly the point reached by the CIS in processing their inventory of pending cases.

    Please understand that this is a temporary phenomenon and due entirely to the difference in the processing capabilities of the CIS and the overseas consular posts.

    I hope this clarifies matters.

    Ron Gotcher

    this makes no sense (with all due respect to Mr Gotcher). He basically claims that PD has been moved to allow CP cases to be processed faster to avoid visa number wastage.. However he also says that there is a huge backlog of AOS cases. Looking at how many CP cases are being called for interview in mumbai and delhi (low hundreds) I dont see how CP alone can help avoid a big wastage of visas. If USCIS is still 20k short, then its the massive pile of AOS cases they should be using, just like they did last year.

    Also, if they waste visa numbers this year, it would be really gross incompetence. EB2-India has gone all the way from 2000 to 2006 this year. They slack off at the start of the year, then scramble in the end. I dont know why they follow this approach knowing full well that right at the end it puts them in a soup.


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  • Legal
    07-25 02:08 PM
    A question about the FB spillover: according to your data, there are about 30000 FB visa spillover from last year. But does USCIS have to use up all of them? If the answer is yes, then the September VB will very likely be current. If the USCIS only need to use up the 147000 EB and use whatever portion of the FB spillover, then September VB may not move.

    They can waste numbers and come up with excuses. But because of criticism from Ombudsman, Congress, etc it looks like they are trying to shape up. They can adjudicate 30 k petitions are more in 2 months if they are committed to. We could get an idea, if there is a deluge of approvals in the first half of August.

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  • yetanotherguyinline
    09-04 07:59 PM

    You may not care, but many members do care about what's happening in India.

    I deeply care about what is happening in my motherland. But this is not the right forum to discuss these issues. Immigration voice is a organization that represents skilled immigrants seeking to emigrate to US and I believe the type of conversation in this thread is not representative of legal immigrant's views (including the majority from India). What we post on open forum is available to everyone and can be used against us in future for propaganda purposes.

    I will probably not respond to future posts but I request admins to consider closing and deleting this thread.


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  • bestia
    02-16 04:40 AM
    Guys, let's straigthen one thing out. I have heard here things like "flooded the market" or "why 90% of company are people of certain nationality". Well.. It's a very natural process, and it happened, happens, and will happen, and it's normal. Look at this scenario. Not to touch any nation, I would use Krakozhia as example.

    Suppose you are from Krakozhia, you are pursuing American Dream, you found clients, you secured some funds and you are ready to open up a business and do something. Now you need people, you have two places to look up: American or foreign. Looking employee in the US is extremely expensive and risky business. 4 out 5 candidates will have no clue what's written in their resumes, will not want to work for you, will chill 2-3 months until you fire them, will be doing only one thing - sending resumes for a new job with better salary. Trying to hire Americans without good HR will lead your business to the dead end.

    So you will look into foreign market. Where? Are you gonna go to China/Russia/India? Where you don't speak their language? Don't know local specifics? Of course you will go to your "Krakozhia", where you know people, where you know universities, and what kinda people graduate from where. So you will build a team and bring here - start working. Here is another fact - about 80% of jobs in the US people get through references. Yes, companies prefer to hire friends of employees, because they don't have to spend resources filtering people from the street. "Are you sure he is a right guy for the job?" - that's it, the guy gets hired. So, your first team will bring their friends/relatives - all "Krakozhians". And from the business point of view - it's the best way. It's not racism, not discrimination, not invasion - just business. You are just doing what is best for your business... business doesn't have races or ethnics groups. And btw, CEO is REQUIRED BY LAW to maximize profits. If hiring foreigner will be more profitable, then you are required in front of your shareholders to do so.

    Only when the company will grow large, have good HR - then the company can afford hiring everybody from everywhere. And US government knows and accepts that, and it's happened in the US history many times. 100/200 years ago there were Irish, German shops. 80 years ago there were Italian shops. Nothing horrible happened, they all eventually melted. I don't see anything wrong that there are Indian or Jewish, or Russian shops. They will eventually melt in and become regular American companies.

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  • paskal
    12-13 05:40 PM
    Note that it would certainly not benefit the other 60%+ from countries other than India that are also stuck in various steps (EB3, name check). So, unless you want IV to stand for IndiaVoice, you should concentrate your admirable effort on increasing the overall quota (with increased per-country quota), excluding dependents, etc.

    in a nutshell:

    an end to retrogression for all
    increased GC quota
    removal of per country quota
    efficient processing of applications

    the per country quota issue is only one among the measures
    we cannot focus exclusively on that because our goal is an end to retrogression for ALL. it does remain though, one of our goals in the package because we believe it is fundamentally unfair and should not be apart of a skilled immigration program.


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  • matreen
    02-12 11:17 PM
    Yes, instead of living in dark lets do something about it....enough is enough.


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  • suriajay12
    09-24 07:59 PM
    congress or the president or USCIS is not going to come and physically check whether you are staying in a house or apt ..and it is not that the original suggestion will become a law in the exact terms (I cannot imagine that there will be a law saying that only those who buy house with 20 down will get GC) ..i.e. the purpose here is to show the giving faster GC's to people who are waiting since 8 years helps the economy in some minute way. and the reverse (i.e. to make a highly paid immigrants wait in line for 8 - 10 years) does not achieve anything !! ..INFACT if there are lot of job losses and if those who are here for 8 plus years start to go back (with their bank balances) ..THEN there will be measurable losses for US ..because the IT person not only takes one job to China, India or some other place ..but also trains lot of youngsters in those places and who end up taking more jobs away ..a BIG loss (plus buys house there, pays taxes, services there) (but I guess politicians are too selfish to see that !!).
    it is as simple as that !!! i.e. give people faster GC's and it helps the US ..make them sweat and keep them in limbo does not achieve anything...will it work God knows ..but it is worth trying since nothing else is happening and soon if things worsen then the GC will be meaning less for many.
    Also, In the end ..if we do go back ..then atleast we will have the satisfaction that we tried everything ..
    on unrelated thoughts ..this wait really sucks ..for me it is almost 5 years since I applied for GC and I cannot even imagine how the people who applied in 2001 / 2002 feel.
    -------- and on related point ...don't rush to buy houses if u don't have a GC (actually this makes sense for those on GC too) is a point from an article by Meredith Whitney who sort of became famous after making some correct forecasts.. this article was written today.
    Whitney said home prices were not close to bottoming and expects prices to ultimately be at least 25 percent lower from current levels. She also sees further declines in homeownership rate.

    The unemployment rate, which is up over 40 percent year-on-year in key states, is "headed materially higher," Whitney said.

    I agree with you.. We need to make the points clear, point wise too. A big letter.. some points may be missed.



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  • santa123
    07-21 07:43 PM
    Best case and worst case

    You have always brought some statistics onto this forum and many of us have felt that your numbers have some logic. I want to know what your confidence level is on those stats, may be you feel on the inside that this is theory and God only knows wht will happen. Since the processes that USCIS & DOL follow is not very clear to anyone, I am curious.

    Just as you know:
    Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein

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  • senthil1
    06-12 06:57 PM
    Grassley bill will not close the door for immigrants but will decrease substanially from 200k(H1+L1) to 80k. But retrogession will go down and those 80k will have less problem in getting green card. You can chose whether to allow unlimited L1 and 125K h1b and 10 to 15 years waiting time or allow 30K L1 + 50K H1b and 3 to 5 years waiting time in green card. Which option will be better for you? If your skills are not good certainly you will not want any restrictions. If your skills are excellent you will survive whatever restrictions they put. They cannot reduce H1b below 65k as that is a part of WTO. So there is no one can block H1b program.

    First, the rant on low wages does not hold water. The employer need to pay prevailing wage which is mandated in the LCA. If some employer does not pay that, employee can (and should) complain to DOL

    Second, you mentioned that you were employed for 2 days enabling you to file 485/EAD and thus you should not be termed out of status/illegal. If a company hired you for 2 days just to allow you to file 485 with no intent to have a job ready for you in future, the company and you commited immigration fraud --- a bigger problem. Also, you cannot invoke AC21 to switch employer before 180 days after you file 485. So, it still remains a mystery how you moved out just after filing 485.

    Your favor towards Grassleys bill shows you just want to close the door. Grassleys bill, if implemented will make it very difficult for even legit employers to get H1 employee. It is a kin to almost closing H1 program out of which you benefitted.

    Also, did you ever floated such ideas when you were on H1 ?


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  • immique
    07-18 11:45 PM
    Spillover will occur from the first quarter itself this time. it has not happened in the last few years because, there were many applications from ROW(especially EB2 and EB3 ROW) coming from backlog centers and using up all the visa numbers as all the spillovers got passed on to EB3 bypassing EB2 retrogressed countries. this is exactly why EB2 was unavailable in February. now with the correct interpretation of the law and EB1 and EB2 ROW being current, the spillover will happen from Nov/dec of this year itself for 2009 quota. But I am not sure how quickly the dates move for Eb2 or how much spillover will happen. remember the visas allotted for a particular quarter will be used by the end of the quarter and I doubt if there will be much demand in EB1 and EB2 ROW that can use up all the visas for the quarter. this is why I think EB2 I and C will get spillover very early in the year and I don't think we will be waiting till the last quarter for this to happen

    What makes you so sure the spillover can happen in the first quarter? Is there an example in the last 10 years? You may have forgot Feb. 2008 bulletin. If what you say is true, why it was U for EB2-I on Feb. 2008? No one in USCIS can take the responsibility if the spillover in first quarter causes EB2 RoW with cutoff date later, as they can't predict if there will be enough(or not) applicants to fullfill the quota. Therefore, spillover can only happen at 4th quarter. Unless if there's really mininum of usage, then it may start at 3rd quarter, but I don't think it will ever happen at 1st quarter.

    Here is the Feb 2008 bulletin.

    Despite two retrogressions of the India Employment Second preference cut-off date, demand for numbers by CIS Offices for adjustment of status cases has remained extremely high in recent months. As a result the annual limit for the India Employment Second preference category has been reached, and the category has become �unavailable� effective immediately.

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  • admin
    02-06 09:35 AM
    Here is a report from

    02/05/2006: DOL Resummitted and Obtained OMB Clearance of Proposed Labor Substitution Elimination Regulation on 02/02/2006

    * This DOL and DHS proposed rule was cleared by the OMB last fall, but for unknown reasons, it has been pushed off. However, on February 2, 2006, Thursday, ETA/DOL resummitted the proposed rule and on the same day, the OMB cleared again this regulation. It is unknown at this time exactly when the DOL will publish this critical regulation but considering the fact that it reinstated the rule-making process as late as three days back, something must be cooking this time. Please stay tuned.

    Great news, especially given that most of the body shoppers were using it for fraud. Also this would make it easier for USCIS to predict the actual usage of Visa numbers and thus move the PDs accurately.


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  • brb2
    11-02 08:04 AM
    No doubt, Canada is a good second option, but the standard of living is much better in the US and will always be. The health system in Canada is crumbling and a private sector is growing in parallel. The wait period for surgery (knee replacements etc) is increasing and I don't think the manna will last too long.

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  • a_yaja
    07-21 02:58 PM
    I have come across quite a few of the Amway/ Quickstart folks. Like most of the people have described here, they usually approach me in Walmart, Meijer, etc. My first experience was in the temple. This dude and his wife went "oh wow! you know so many languages." After talking to the dude, he said that he knew some of my childhood friends and he remembered my face and that we could have possibly played cricket together in our childhood days (this itself should have raised red flags - but I was naive then and didn't think twice). Long story short, we exchanged phone #s and next day he called me and asked me to meet him at his home. He was running an "ecomm business" and was looking for partners. I asked him if he was talking about Amway and he innocently asked me "What is Amway?" I agreed to meet him but something bothered me. I called up another childhood friend who was in Amway and asked him about this dude. Sure enough he was an Amway-ite and already a "Diamond". I was mad and did not go to his house. He called me a couple of times but I never picked up the phone.

    That encounter was a bitter experience for me and I decided that I will not entertain any more desis who do cold contacts. However, soon I forgot all about him and I had 2 or 3 more such "cold" contacts (it took me about 3 more experiences to realize the Amyay "cold" contact pattern). I decided that enough was enough. From then on if a desi approached me in any of the stores and decided to do a "cold" contact, I would be on my guard. I would not become angry or irritated (after all they are humans too and they are just doing what they believe will give them a better life) - I would just steer the conversation to what I would like to do in my life. I would spin some yarn about how I am really happy volunteering to help kids in 1st and 2nd grade improve their English reading skills (which I really did) or how I liked taking part in the local community college's adult literacy program (helping adults prepare for GEDs, etc - again which is something I do). I would then go on and become philosophical about how these days everyone is after money and think about money all the time and how this is creating a very unhealthy state of mind, especially among Indians. I would make sure to tell the person that I would not like to go down that path and being a pious Hindu, my goal is to attain Moksha by leading a simple life.

    By this time if the dude has not run away from me, I will ask him what his objectives are. Usually they say that they can understand where I am coming from and congratulate me for all my community service (I am rolling all over the place in my head - but somehow keep a straight face). One guy even went so far as to tell me that he is on the other end of the spectrum and he gives away a lot of money in charity. He even told me that I should consider going that route as well. After the meeting, I call up my Amway friend and ask him if XYZ is in Amway and the answer has always been yes.
    Inspite of all this if the dude asks for my phone number (and this has happened once), I come up with the story that I forgot to bring my cell phone and proceed to give the person the phone # of the local pharmacy. I also suggest that he give a "missed call" (again rolled all over the place in my head when he gave a missed call) so that I can note down his # when I go home.
    I just had to get this off my chest when I saw the Amway thread. Hopefully others can also turn a potentially unpleasant situation into a pleasant situation and have fun at some other person's expense.

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  • andycool
    09-17 07:46 AM
    Here are the authentic numbers from (

    My analysis from those mdb files: (they are tricky because the data is for FY2005 while the priority date calculations we are doing are for the calendar year)

    calendar year 2005 ( received date between 3/19/2005 - 12/31/2005) = 8645
    year 2006 (rcv date between 1/1/2006 - 9/27/2006) = 15008

    after this it gets bad since the data has no receipt date, only certified date. my estimate is around 12000 for those 3 months of 2006.(total number of certified PERMs between 10/2/2006 - 03/31/2007 = 13873)

    total PERM approvals with PD between march 2005 and Dec 2006 ~ 37000

    If EB2 is 50%, we are talking ~19000, with an avg of 2.5 GCs per PERM, we need 47,500 GCs between Mar 05 and Jan 07.

    Good luck every one :(:D:mad:

    These numbers are not correct .....

    the total numbers of perm certified for india from March 2005 - March 2006 is ~ 11000 this includes all EB cases . I dont know how you got the number 37000 .

    this is from (

    08-17 08:38 PM
    True greatness is shown by humility, not pride.

    Al Gore, Kalam, etc are great personalities.
    SRK nah!!

    Thousands of South Asians have gone through same treatment.
    Growup SRK, don't be such a baby :D.

    I have never watched his movies, and i got one more reason not to watch "My name is Khan".

    Nicely said mate. I cannot believe the kind of people who're on this forum. Some love to beat you up with all those reds for honest thoughts on someone quite insignificant, like an SRK. He is a guy who gives a hoot and remain oblivious to your dilemma or your struggles and in all probability used the alleged incident at EWR as a Public relations stunt for his new movie. Goes to show some of you truly have no self esteem in yourself. Unfortunate.

    08-30 10:53 AM
    I would recommend you to search online such as and apply for some positions. This is the only reliable way to test the Canadian job market. If you get positive responses, it tells you that your skill set is indeed in demand. If not, you should think twice before moving. Since Canada and US are next to each other, you can probably be able to go for interviews and to secure a job before moving. This way, you are sure that you will have a job when you move.

    One reminder. Don't expect their jobs can pay you as good as what you are getting in US. The upside is the living standard is relatively lower in Canada especially compared to big cities like NYC and San Francisco. Also, you will have more vacations and no more worry of GC retrogression.

    I did the PR Canadian immi. myself and got the approval. The process is straightforward . However, I hesitate to go there . From what I heard is diffucult to get IT job.

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