mmanurker
11-25 03:21 PM
Interesting Example of how the bubble bursts!
Here's a very interesting anecdote that describes how an 'asset bubble' builds up and what are its consequences.
Read it even if it confuses you a bit:confused:...things will be clear as you reach the end....
ANECDOTE -
Once there was a little island country. The land of this country was the tiny island itself. The total money in circulation was 2 dollar as there were only two pieces of 1 dollar coins circulating around.
1) There were 3 citizens living on this island country. A owned the land. B and C each owned 1 dollar.
2) B decided to purchase the land from A for 1 dollar. So, A and C now each own 1 dollar while B owned a piece of land that is worth 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
3) C thought that since there is only one piece of land in the country and land is non produce able asset, its value must definitely go up. So, he borrowed 1 dollar from A and together with his own 1 dollar, he bought the land from B for 2 dollar.
A has a loan to C of 1 dollar, so his net asset is 1 dollar.
B sold his land and got 2 dollar, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
C owned the piece of land worth 2 dollar but with his 1 dollar debt to A, his net asset is 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 4 dollar.
4) A saw that the land he once owned has risen in value. He regretted selling it. Luckily, he has a 1 dollar loan to C. He then borrowed 2 dollar from B and acquired the land back from C for 3 dollar. The payment is by 2 dollar cash (which he borrowed) and cancellation of the 1 dollar loan to C. As a result, A now owned a piece of land that is worth 3 dollar. But since he owed B 2 dollar, his net asset is 1 dollar.
B loaned 2 dollar to A. So his net asset is 2 dollar.
C now has the 2 coins. His net asset is also 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 5 dollar. A bubble is building up.
(5) B saw that the value of land kept rising. He also wanted to own the land. So he bought the land from A for 4 dollar. The payment is by borrowing 2 dollar from C and cancellation of his 2 dollar loan to A. As a result, A has got his debt cleared and he got the 2 coins.. His net asset is 2 dollar.
B owned a piece of land that is worth 4 dollar but since he has a debt of 2 dollar with C, his net Asset is 2 dollar.
C loaned 2 dollar to B, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 6 dollar. Even though, the country has only one piece of land and 2 Dollar in circulation.
(6) Everybody has made money and everybody felt happy and prosperous.
(7) One day an evil wind blowed. An evil thought came to C's mind. 'Hey, what if the land price stop going up, how could B repay my loan. There is only 2 dollar in circulation, I think after all the land that B owns is worth at most 1 dollar only.'
A also thought the same.
(8) Nobody wanted to buy land anymore. In the end, A owns the 2 dollar coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B owed C 2 dollar and the land he owned which he thought worth 4 dollar is now 1 dollar. His net asset become -1
dollar.
C has a loan of 2 dollar to B. But it is a bad debt. Although his net asset is still 2 dollar, his Heart is palpitating. The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
Who has stolen the 3 dollar from the country ? Of course, before the bubble burst B thought his land worth 4 dollar. Actually, right before the collapse, the net asset of the country was 6 dollar in paper. his net asset is still 2 dollar, his heart is palpitating.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
(9) B had no choice but to declare bankruptcy. C as to relinquish his 2 dollar bad debt to B but in return he acquired the land which is worth 1 dollar now.
A owns the 2 coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B is bankrupt, his net asset is 0 dollar. ( B lost everything ) C got no choice but end up with a land worth only 1 dollar (C lost one dollar) The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
************ ****End of the story******* ********* ********* **
There is however a redistribution of wealth.
A is the winner, B is the loser, C is lucky that he is spared.
A few points worth noting -
(1) When a bubble is building up, the debt of individual in a country to one another is also building up.
(2) This story of the island is a close system whereby there is no other country and hence no foreign debt. The worth of the asset can only be calculated using the island's own currency. Hence, there is no net loss.
(3) An over damped system is assumed when the bubble burst, meaning the land's value did not go down to below 1 dollar.
(4) When the bubble burst, the fellow with cash is the winner. The fellows having the land or extending loan to others are the loser. The asset could shrink or in worst case, they go bankrupt.
(5) If there is another citizen D either holding a dollar or another piece of land but refrain to take part in the game. At the end of the day, he will neither win nor lose. But he will see the value of his money or land go up and down like a see saw.
(6) When the bubble was in the growing phase, everybody made money.
(7) If you are smart and know that you are living in a growing bubble, it is worthwhile to borrow money (like A ) and take part in the game. But you must know when you should change everything back to cash.
(8) Instead of land, the above applies to stocks as well.
(9) The actual worth of land or stocks depend largely on supply and demand
Here's a very interesting anecdote that describes how an 'asset bubble' builds up and what are its consequences.
Read it even if it confuses you a bit:confused:...things will be clear as you reach the end....
ANECDOTE -
Once there was a little island country. The land of this country was the tiny island itself. The total money in circulation was 2 dollar as there were only two pieces of 1 dollar coins circulating around.
1) There were 3 citizens living on this island country. A owned the land. B and C each owned 1 dollar.
2) B decided to purchase the land from A for 1 dollar. So, A and C now each own 1 dollar while B owned a piece of land that is worth 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
3) C thought that since there is only one piece of land in the country and land is non produce able asset, its value must definitely go up. So, he borrowed 1 dollar from A and together with his own 1 dollar, he bought the land from B for 2 dollar.
A has a loan to C of 1 dollar, so his net asset is 1 dollar.
B sold his land and got 2 dollar, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
C owned the piece of land worth 2 dollar but with his 1 dollar debt to A, his net asset is 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 4 dollar.
4) A saw that the land he once owned has risen in value. He regretted selling it. Luckily, he has a 1 dollar loan to C. He then borrowed 2 dollar from B and acquired the land back from C for 3 dollar. The payment is by 2 dollar cash (which he borrowed) and cancellation of the 1 dollar loan to C. As a result, A now owned a piece of land that is worth 3 dollar. But since he owed B 2 dollar, his net asset is 1 dollar.
B loaned 2 dollar to A. So his net asset is 2 dollar.
C now has the 2 coins. His net asset is also 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 5 dollar. A bubble is building up.
(5) B saw that the value of land kept rising. He also wanted to own the land. So he bought the land from A for 4 dollar. The payment is by borrowing 2 dollar from C and cancellation of his 2 dollar loan to A. As a result, A has got his debt cleared and he got the 2 coins.. His net asset is 2 dollar.
B owned a piece of land that is worth 4 dollar but since he has a debt of 2 dollar with C, his net Asset is 2 dollar.
C loaned 2 dollar to B, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 6 dollar. Even though, the country has only one piece of land and 2 Dollar in circulation.
(6) Everybody has made money and everybody felt happy and prosperous.
(7) One day an evil wind blowed. An evil thought came to C's mind. 'Hey, what if the land price stop going up, how could B repay my loan. There is only 2 dollar in circulation, I think after all the land that B owns is worth at most 1 dollar only.'
A also thought the same.
(8) Nobody wanted to buy land anymore. In the end, A owns the 2 dollar coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B owed C 2 dollar and the land he owned which he thought worth 4 dollar is now 1 dollar. His net asset become -1
dollar.
C has a loan of 2 dollar to B. But it is a bad debt. Although his net asset is still 2 dollar, his Heart is palpitating. The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
Who has stolen the 3 dollar from the country ? Of course, before the bubble burst B thought his land worth 4 dollar. Actually, right before the collapse, the net asset of the country was 6 dollar in paper. his net asset is still 2 dollar, his heart is palpitating.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
(9) B had no choice but to declare bankruptcy. C as to relinquish his 2 dollar bad debt to B but in return he acquired the land which is worth 1 dollar now.
A owns the 2 coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B is bankrupt, his net asset is 0 dollar. ( B lost everything ) C got no choice but end up with a land worth only 1 dollar (C lost one dollar) The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
************ ****End of the story******* ********* ********* **
There is however a redistribution of wealth.
A is the winner, B is the loser, C is lucky that he is spared.
A few points worth noting -
(1) When a bubble is building up, the debt of individual in a country to one another is also building up.
(2) This story of the island is a close system whereby there is no other country and hence no foreign debt. The worth of the asset can only be calculated using the island's own currency. Hence, there is no net loss.
(3) An over damped system is assumed when the bubble burst, meaning the land's value did not go down to below 1 dollar.
(4) When the bubble burst, the fellow with cash is the winner. The fellows having the land or extending loan to others are the loser. The asset could shrink or in worst case, they go bankrupt.
(5) If there is another citizen D either holding a dollar or another piece of land but refrain to take part in the game. At the end of the day, he will neither win nor lose. But he will see the value of his money or land go up and down like a see saw.
(6) When the bubble was in the growing phase, everybody made money.
(7) If you are smart and know that you are living in a growing bubble, it is worthwhile to borrow money (like A ) and take part in the game. But you must know when you should change everything back to cash.
(8) Instead of land, the above applies to stocks as well.
(9) The actual worth of land or stocks depend largely on supply and demand
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l1fraud
06-10 09:16 AM
Thanks guys .... for coming behind me .. Shane Warne or Purple Haze won't satisfy you guys .. Y dont we discuss how Kanimozhi's discontent couldn't play spoil sport for the new govt and how Azhagiri got cornered with chemicals and fertilizers (these 2 are not any interntaional fame for an american 'tunnel rat' to know abt them).
Above all I am here to get some information to bring a company which violates rules to authorities, nothing more nothing less and not here to do any name calling of mud slinging.
Above all I am here to get some information to bring a company which violates rules to authorities, nothing more nothing less and not here to do any name calling of mud slinging.
nish
06-12 06:36 PM
Thanks for your reply.
They have not specified anything like my prior company is fake in any of the communication email.They are asking me come back because they find something wrong about my prior company after four year and i am not able to provide more evidence.During four year i worked in 10 to 15 project for diff client and for each project first they did BG and put me in project.Now they are asking me that provide some more evidence or come back to offshore.
I know if i come back to india they will give me layoff from company.In this situation how do i fight with my company.
Please any of guide me if any of member come across in this situation
They have not specified anything like my prior company is fake in any of the communication email.They are asking me come back because they find something wrong about my prior company after four year and i am not able to provide more evidence.During four year i worked in 10 to 15 project for diff client and for each project first they did BG and put me in project.Now they are asking me that provide some more evidence or come back to offshore.
I know if i come back to india they will give me layoff from company.In this situation how do i fight with my company.
Please any of guide me if any of member come across in this situation
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485Mbe4001
10-18 11:29 AM
:p, unfortunately bouquets will not work here, some people on one of the yahoo groups did try that, pro flowers refunded the money because FBI doesnt accept flowers or some crap like that:eek:
Thank you sir. If nothing else moves forward on this Front , we have Bouquets :-)
Thank you sir. If nothing else moves forward on this Front , we have Bouquets :-)
more...
abuddyz
01-29 08:51 AM
good point.
We need to track the H1b approval date and the service center that approved it.
For those who don't know, the first three letters of the receipt number in you I-797 H-1b approval notice indicates the service center.
Like SRC is Texas, EAC is Vermont, LIN is nebraska and CSC for california.
Please include this info too.
what about WAC? (I have WAC.)
We need to track the H1b approval date and the service center that approved it.
For those who don't know, the first three letters of the receipt number in you I-797 H-1b approval notice indicates the service center.
Like SRC is Texas, EAC is Vermont, LIN is nebraska and CSC for california.
Please include this info too.
what about WAC? (I have WAC.)
indiangcseeker
03-19 06:15 PM
Aright: I spoke with a person at NJ Senator Robert Menendez's office. She mentioned about lots of Calls/Mails and Faxes about Green Card Backlogs have been received.
I've faxed them regarding the same and hoping to get response, if not then next week will do a follow-up call.
Also mailed the letter to DOS and NJ Representatives from congress.org.
If possible will definitely meet Senator Robert Menendez.
I've faxed them regarding the same and hoping to get response, if not then next week will do a follow-up call.
Also mailed the letter to DOS and NJ Representatives from congress.org.
If possible will definitely meet Senator Robert Menendez.
more...
indianindian2006
09-09 03:35 PM
Wife called all of them I am starting to call now
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kanakabyraju
08-20 11:12 AM
Here is the link
Vonage - Residential Calling Plans - Premium Unlimited Plan (http://www.vonage.com/residential_calling_plans/vonage_world/?refer_id=WEBHB090201001W1)
Vonage - Residential Calling Plans - Premium Unlimited Plan (http://www.vonage.com/residential_calling_plans/vonage_world/?refer_id=WEBHB090201001W1)
more...
manderson
07-13 10:07 AM
I thought he might say something stupid about the Hindu Prayer disruption in Senate yesterday. However he didn't bring it up. But the way it's been going his "faux pas" (anti-Italian remarks during Italian parade in Little Italy, anti-Latino, anti-Indian and anti-Chinese remarks such as "socio-ethnic interest groups", "foriegn" and "cheap labor", "Communist China" and ofcourse the 7000 lepers in 3 years...) are all building up and sooner or later something will give.
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feedfront
09-23 01:09 AM
Congrats!
Did you directly get card production ordered or approval then CPO?
Card Ordererd/Productin email
Did you directly get card production ordered or approval then CPO?
Card Ordererd/Productin email
more...
nk2006
11-10 01:50 PM
Please keep writing. As many posters already pointed out - economy is getting worse and changing job may become a necessity to many of us. We cannot afford to jeopardize our green card process - if our old employer withdraws I140. Our only way is to raise and get enough attention to this issue so something is done quickly before it becomes a norm.
(I dont mean to start a ticker here on economy but following events in the recent past speak for themselves. Bankruptcies: Circuit City, LinenNThings, LehmanBrothers. Restructuring/Layoffs: AIG, MerrilLynch, Yahoo, Nortel, Cadence, eBay, Nokia, etc. Official Hiring freeze: Cisco, etc. Unoffical hiring freeze: Google (in many divisions) and a lot of medium sized companies) Look an active ticker at: http://news.cnet.com/tech-layoffs/
(I dont mean to start a ticker here on economy but following events in the recent past speak for themselves. Bankruptcies: Circuit City, LinenNThings, LehmanBrothers. Restructuring/Layoffs: AIG, MerrilLynch, Yahoo, Nortel, Cadence, eBay, Nokia, etc. Official Hiring freeze: Cisco, etc. Unoffical hiring freeze: Google (in many divisions) and a lot of medium sized companies) Look an active ticker at: http://news.cnet.com/tech-layoffs/
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innervoice
08-15 02:06 PM
I'm waiting toooooooooo..........., PD: Oct 2005:mad:
more...
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StillonH1B
09-24 06:06 PM
This link is not working
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/New%20Str...%20Reports.pdf. I get a Page Not found error.
Is there a different link.
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/New%20Str...%20Reports.pdf. I get a Page Not found error.
Is there a different link.
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unseenguy
06-19 01:29 AM
Here is your post on 6/15/2009 @ 4.49pm
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=352619&postcount=82
See the words in RED BOLD font. They highlight you mentioning the word "REFERENCE". Kapish?!
Maybe you should check on your eyesight. And while you're at it, get your head examined as well... memory loss is an early sign of onset of senility.
Dick head, as I said check your reading comprehension skills. I am sure you will flunk it. Agreed reference was in my post but you have diluted the whole meaning of my post. Great that you are a perfectionist who reads words carefully.
You just picked up one words in my post and diluted the whole meaning of it. Cant imagine where chutiyas like you come from.
I am sure you are some lowly developer under threat from off shore vendors and hence desperate to see their backs off you by hook or crook.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=352619&postcount=82
See the words in RED BOLD font. They highlight you mentioning the word "REFERENCE". Kapish?!
Maybe you should check on your eyesight. And while you're at it, get your head examined as well... memory loss is an early sign of onset of senility.
Dick head, as I said check your reading comprehension skills. I am sure you will flunk it. Agreed reference was in my post but you have diluted the whole meaning of my post. Great that you are a perfectionist who reads words carefully.
You just picked up one words in my post and diluted the whole meaning of it. Cant imagine where chutiyas like you come from.
I am sure you are some lowly developer under threat from off shore vendors and hence desperate to see their backs off you by hook or crook.
more...
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thescadaman
09-15 09:51 AM
I remember your enthusiasm from the Sept 2007 Rally Days. Congratulations!
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smisachu
08-16 11:49 PM
I just checked my online status one last time for the day; since the USCIS website was down all day. Usually its the same status but now I saw a LUD in today�s date. I checked the case status and both me and my wife have the Card Production Status:D
No emails or text just the update. Called the phone number and got the same message that the card has been ordered.
Its been a very long journey very similar to many here. Its been almost 11 years to a month since we came to this country and had to go through 2 applications to finally reach here. Sacrificed career for the sake of the GC and was at my wits ends with this long wait. Thanks to the almighty the road from here is hopefully green:)
Friends, IV�ians and fellow sufferers,
Today we received our physical Green card; 63 years since my motherland got her freedom I got mine. Its been a long journey and I am glad that I can shut this chapter and go on to the next..
First of all let me tell you that the mail that you get the card is as incognito as they come. Its not in the USCIS envelope, looks almost like a credit card offer. Wife was almost going to shred it but felt the card and opened it :). Its actually green. With the date of birth mentioned a gazillion times. Magnetic strip, hologram and all that kind of jazzy stuff. I have no freaking clue where they got the picture from, its not what I submitted with the I485. It should be the one they took while finger printing in 2007.
Finally I popped the cork off a bottle of Champagne that I have been saving for this occasion and have taken more than a few morsel sips of the bubbly. (please pardon any excesses I might make in this post :D). Now I can chart out my career as I want to with no constraints to cap my potential. I can attain full self actualization in whatever I decide to do and also hopefully contribute more to society both here in my karma bhoomi and back in India my janma bhoomi.
If I may paraphrase Jawaharlal Nehru � when the world sleeps (its 12:45AM eastern); I awaken� !!
I have contributed both financially and with my time to IV. I will continue to do so. I wish all of you the very best and hope the ones waiting in get their GC soon. Keep the faith.
No emails or text just the update. Called the phone number and got the same message that the card has been ordered.
Its been a very long journey very similar to many here. Its been almost 11 years to a month since we came to this country and had to go through 2 applications to finally reach here. Sacrificed career for the sake of the GC and was at my wits ends with this long wait. Thanks to the almighty the road from here is hopefully green:)
Friends, IV�ians and fellow sufferers,
Today we received our physical Green card; 63 years since my motherland got her freedom I got mine. Its been a long journey and I am glad that I can shut this chapter and go on to the next..
First of all let me tell you that the mail that you get the card is as incognito as they come. Its not in the USCIS envelope, looks almost like a credit card offer. Wife was almost going to shred it but felt the card and opened it :). Its actually green. With the date of birth mentioned a gazillion times. Magnetic strip, hologram and all that kind of jazzy stuff. I have no freaking clue where they got the picture from, its not what I submitted with the I485. It should be the one they took while finger printing in 2007.
Finally I popped the cork off a bottle of Champagne that I have been saving for this occasion and have taken more than a few morsel sips of the bubbly. (please pardon any excesses I might make in this post :D). Now I can chart out my career as I want to with no constraints to cap my potential. I can attain full self actualization in whatever I decide to do and also hopefully contribute more to society both here in my karma bhoomi and back in India my janma bhoomi.
If I may paraphrase Jawaharlal Nehru � when the world sleeps (its 12:45AM eastern); I awaken� !!
I have contributed both financially and with my time to IV. I will continue to do so. I wish all of you the very best and hope the ones waiting in get their GC soon. Keep the faith.
more...
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pmpforgc
01-07 11:46 PM
I am surprised to see this thread active this long. Earlier I have with help of Saralayar and other members have bring this point to attention. But at that time no one was supporting Idea.
I see increasing support for the Idea as GC journey become longer and longer.
Earlier I have pointed following points that I want to bring to remind if we want to get real support for this idea of early CITIZENSHIP AFTER GREEN CARD
(1) I-140 and I-485 must be approved.
(@) Time should be considered only after getting GC
(3) For getting closer for political support our proposal should be close to Existing laws for FAMILY BASED and MARRIAGE BASED CITIZENSHIPS
So we should argur that if YOU HAVE MASTER AND ABOVE IN STEM FILEDS YOu can get CITIZEN SHIP 5 yrs from date of Approval of I-140 ( which make it closer to fmaily based) and THREE YEARS from Date of Approval of I-485 (closer to marriage based citizens). You can get earlier of two . But when you get Citizenship your I-485 must be approved for ATLEAST 1 year.
The above requirements can get closer to Marriage and family based and also help 90% of IV members.
Adding the clause for the EDUCATIONAL THING might be able to get more political support also
Thanks
I see increasing support for the Idea as GC journey become longer and longer.
Earlier I have pointed following points that I want to bring to remind if we want to get real support for this idea of early CITIZENSHIP AFTER GREEN CARD
(1) I-140 and I-485 must be approved.
(@) Time should be considered only after getting GC
(3) For getting closer for political support our proposal should be close to Existing laws for FAMILY BASED and MARRIAGE BASED CITIZENSHIPS
So we should argur that if YOU HAVE MASTER AND ABOVE IN STEM FILEDS YOu can get CITIZEN SHIP 5 yrs from date of Approval of I-140 ( which make it closer to fmaily based) and THREE YEARS from Date of Approval of I-485 (closer to marriage based citizens). You can get earlier of two . But when you get Citizenship your I-485 must be approved for ATLEAST 1 year.
The above requirements can get closer to Marriage and family based and also help 90% of IV members.
Adding the clause for the EDUCATIONAL THING might be able to get more political support also
Thanks
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nkavjs
09-25 11:56 AM
A number shd be printed on your approved I-140 approval notice. Always save this number. Its just as imp. as your D/L card. :P (till you get your GC stamped)
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gcwait
09-02 08:34 PM
please send me email so that i can subscribe this service
MahaBharatGC
01-30 02:48 PM
There are 3 kind of jobs -
1. Jobs that require active security clearance - this kind of job is only limited to US citizen that have security clearance of that level. Yes, tehre are different levels in security clearance as well.
2. Jobs that will be in unit where everyone must be US citizen. These kind of jobs can be filled by US citizen without the need of any security clearance.
3. Jobs that are open for everyone - One must have active work authorization.
The vast majority of the jobs are of type #3. In any case, if job requires US citizen, the hiring place must be able to answer why that job is restricted to US citizens only.
_________________________
US citizen of Indian origin
Not a legal advice
Let me share my wife's bitter experience. She told the employer about EAD. She got interview thrice and selected. Offer letter came and they mentioned that it is only allowed after the security clearance such as NAT.
Employment verification was success.
Then when they sent papers to NAT clearance they rejected immediately as for NAT clearance one must be Green Card holder atleast.
The HR department mentioned sorry for their confusion as they themselves completely do not understand the whole thing.
So, any security clearance jobs for Govt/Military/AirForce dont waste your time if you are EAD holder.
1. Jobs that require active security clearance - this kind of job is only limited to US citizen that have security clearance of that level. Yes, tehre are different levels in security clearance as well.
2. Jobs that will be in unit where everyone must be US citizen. These kind of jobs can be filled by US citizen without the need of any security clearance.
3. Jobs that are open for everyone - One must have active work authorization.
The vast majority of the jobs are of type #3. In any case, if job requires US citizen, the hiring place must be able to answer why that job is restricted to US citizens only.
_________________________
US citizen of Indian origin
Not a legal advice
Let me share my wife's bitter experience. She told the employer about EAD. She got interview thrice and selected. Offer letter came and they mentioned that it is only allowed after the security clearance such as NAT.
Employment verification was success.
Then when they sent papers to NAT clearance they rejected immediately as for NAT clearance one must be Green Card holder atleast.
The HR department mentioned sorry for their confusion as they themselves completely do not understand the whole thing.
So, any security clearance jobs for Govt/Military/AirForce dont waste your time if you are EAD holder.
Nil
03-10 09:05 PM
Thanks,
This is funny - one red and one green, so it turned blue now.
Anyway - can we quickly compile a list of to-dos to take this idea fwd?
This is funny - one red and one green, so it turned blue now.
Anyway - can we quickly compile a list of to-dos to take this idea fwd?
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