Pineapple
12-14 05:10 PM
I can understand your concerns.. and no, I do no resent your comment. I rather welcome a different viewpoint! IV, I emphatically maintain is made up ordinary people, like you and me, regardless of nationality and culture. I'm not a core member, but that, in itself, is the point - there is no top-down hierarchy, no "party line". IV is us. It is the very embodiment of the philosophy, "Of the people, by the people, and for the people" .
If it were any different, I would not be here.
That said, let me address your concerns. You (and anyone else) is free to disagree.
Let us say all country quotas are removed. In that case, yes, you will see a majority of GCs going to people of Indian and Chinese extraction. But to say that the removal of country quota is going to disadvantage people of other countries is a mathematical fallacy.
Let me explain it this way, using an analogy. Suppose you take part in a lotto game. The prizes (GC) are limited. Say there is only one prize and you have 100 participants. Also, further, let us say 80 are from California and 20 are from Pennsylvania.
If you play the game several times, you will see that 80 % of the prizes go to people from California.
But, that does not mean that you will improve your chances of winning if you move from Pennsylvania to California!!
Your odds are exactly the same - 1 in 100.
Removing country quotas would have the same consequence: If would actually give everyone a level playing field, and everyone would have the same shot at making the coveted quota of 140,000 EB GCs.
But when you have quotas, the probabilities are severely distorted. Especially when you have arbitrary quotas. (Why 7 %? Why not 9 %? Why not 5.247 %?).
In this case, if you are from India or China, you are seriously disadvantaged, while someone from a smaller country gets an unfair advantage. This is not complex political philosophy. It is school boy arithmetic.
You see what I mean?
When an Indian or Chinese asks for no country quotas, he/she is not asking for more.. He/she can no more control the wind as control where he/she is born. He/she is just asking to have a fair chance just as anyone else in the world. Why should he/she be penalized for being born in a big country?
I hope you see what I mean.
Anyway, the thread is about whether we can make a constitutionality argument in the court. The issue of "fairness" is quite settled as I explained above.
I know what I am about to say will trigger a lot of reaction and some resentment, but it has to be said on behalf of those who are not Indian. I think the per country limit is to ensure that people of all nationalities and races have an equal opportunity to obtain a green card and to ensure that no one nationality, group, or even sector (i.e. IT) monopolizes the so few visas that are available. In fact, in the visa lottery, countries become excluded when the number of immigrants from them reach a certain point, so we are lucky they do not do that in the Employment-based system!
I think that by wanting to remove the per country limit so more Indians can avail of the green card quota is both asking for "special treatment" and a slap in the face for all the non-Indian IV members. The more I read the threads on this site, the more I feel that this organization is geared just to one ethnic group. I am sure that Indians probably make up the majority of members, but the founders of IV (I hope) did not want this organization to become one-sided! Please be considerate of ALL members and try to come up with suggestions that would benefit ALL members!!!:mad:
If it were any different, I would not be here.
That said, let me address your concerns. You (and anyone else) is free to disagree.
Let us say all country quotas are removed. In that case, yes, you will see a majority of GCs going to people of Indian and Chinese extraction. But to say that the removal of country quota is going to disadvantage people of other countries is a mathematical fallacy.
Let me explain it this way, using an analogy. Suppose you take part in a lotto game. The prizes (GC) are limited. Say there is only one prize and you have 100 participants. Also, further, let us say 80 are from California and 20 are from Pennsylvania.
If you play the game several times, you will see that 80 % of the prizes go to people from California.
But, that does not mean that you will improve your chances of winning if you move from Pennsylvania to California!!
Your odds are exactly the same - 1 in 100.
Removing country quotas would have the same consequence: If would actually give everyone a level playing field, and everyone would have the same shot at making the coveted quota of 140,000 EB GCs.
But when you have quotas, the probabilities are severely distorted. Especially when you have arbitrary quotas. (Why 7 %? Why not 9 %? Why not 5.247 %?).
In this case, if you are from India or China, you are seriously disadvantaged, while someone from a smaller country gets an unfair advantage. This is not complex political philosophy. It is school boy arithmetic.
You see what I mean?
When an Indian or Chinese asks for no country quotas, he/she is not asking for more.. He/she can no more control the wind as control where he/she is born. He/she is just asking to have a fair chance just as anyone else in the world. Why should he/she be penalized for being born in a big country?
I hope you see what I mean.
Anyway, the thread is about whether we can make a constitutionality argument in the court. The issue of "fairness" is quite settled as I explained above.
I know what I am about to say will trigger a lot of reaction and some resentment, but it has to be said on behalf of those who are not Indian. I think the per country limit is to ensure that people of all nationalities and races have an equal opportunity to obtain a green card and to ensure that no one nationality, group, or even sector (i.e. IT) monopolizes the so few visas that are available. In fact, in the visa lottery, countries become excluded when the number of immigrants from them reach a certain point, so we are lucky they do not do that in the Employment-based system!
I think that by wanting to remove the per country limit so more Indians can avail of the green card quota is both asking for "special treatment" and a slap in the face for all the non-Indian IV members. The more I read the threads on this site, the more I feel that this organization is geared just to one ethnic group. I am sure that Indians probably make up the majority of members, but the founders of IV (I hope) did not want this organization to become one-sided! Please be considerate of ALL members and try to come up with suggestions that would benefit ALL members!!!:mad:
wallpaper May 20, 2011. Readers comment
paskal
12-13 06:46 PM
unless someone has some concrete information to convince me otherwise.
the visa lottery has not been discontinued, CIR 2007 would have done that- if it had seen the light of day. dems will never let it go if they control things. pubs hate it on the other hand..
the visa lottery has not been discontinued, CIR 2007 would have done that- if it had seen the light of day. dems will never let it go if they control things. pubs hate it on the other hand..
ivar
08-16 02:05 AM
He is confused immigration with security system
I agree security system and immigration system are two different things but they are closely related. What procedures we follow after landing with our I-94 form are immigration procedures and not security checks. Well i guess i need not extend this topic any further.. because as one post above says that this thread is not leading to any fruitful discussion. I assume forums are a place to discuss and exchange views and ideas and what better place than IV to discuss immigration issues.. i don't understand. Still if this thread doesn't serve any purpose i will edit and remove all my post on this thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your views.
I agree security system and immigration system are two different things but they are closely related. What procedures we follow after landing with our I-94 form are immigration procedures and not security checks. Well i guess i need not extend this topic any further.. because as one post above says that this thread is not leading to any fruitful discussion. I assume forums are a place to discuss and exchange views and ideas and what better place than IV to discuss immigration issues.. i don't understand. Still if this thread doesn't serve any purpose i will edit and remove all my post on this thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your views.
2011 Dominique Strauss-Kahn,
sachug22
09-24 05:50 PM
/\ my answers
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
How is assigning Visa number different from issuing Physical green card (they may be two step but once you get a visa number assigned you get physical green card in few days)
Can you prove that the concept is false, this is plain interpretation of visa bulletin notes and the law.
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
How is assigning Visa number different from issuing Physical green card (they may be two step but once you get a visa number assigned you get physical green card in few days)
Can you prove that the concept is false, this is plain interpretation of visa bulletin notes and the law.
more...
bayarea07
07-27 07:26 PM
If you read carefully that is what vkkrishn said that even after saying 'No' multiple times IBO's
keep bothering you until you are rude/harsh to them.
Is it not law of the land that if you keep bothering a harmless dog even he is going to come bite you and that is what happened with most of the folks here and i do not understand how come any self respecting man can take that rudeness day in and out UNLESS THEY ARE BEING BRAINWASHED TO BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY ELSE WHO SAYS 'NO' IS A LOOSER.
Nobody harassing anyone. You are doing it to yourself. If you are not interested why would they bother you?
Arrested?? make me laugh...please go ahead.
keep bothering you until you are rude/harsh to them.
Is it not law of the land that if you keep bothering a harmless dog even he is going to come bite you and that is what happened with most of the folks here and i do not understand how come any self respecting man can take that rudeness day in and out UNLESS THEY ARE BEING BRAINWASHED TO BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY ELSE WHO SAYS 'NO' IS A LOOSER.
Nobody harassing anyone. You are doing it to yourself. If you are not interested why would they bother you?
Arrested?? make me laugh...please go ahead.
vdlrao
07-25 07:01 PM
I still believe in EB2 will try to catch up current by next October.
more...
qualified_trash
10-23 03:23 PM
Thanks eb3India.
How does the current company obtain a pre-approved labor? Does it buy the pre-app labour? Or is it SOLELY because someone in the company left (whose labor was approved)?
I was reading a lot about the controversy about why it should be stopped etc so i was wondering if someone had any documentation on why it was started in the first place and how it works
Thanks
a company that has had the LC approved can reuse it for someone else. that is all!!
How does the current company obtain a pre-approved labor? Does it buy the pre-app labour? Or is it SOLELY because someone in the company left (whose labor was approved)?
I was reading a lot about the controversy about why it should be stopped etc so i was wondering if someone had any documentation on why it was started in the first place and how it works
Thanks
a company that has had the LC approved can reuse it for someone else. that is all!!
2010 When Dominique Strauss-Kahn
poorslumdog
09-04 12:59 PM
No point in agruing with fools like you.....
Then argu with yourself Idiot.:D
Then argu with yourself Idiot.:D
more...
grupak
12-13 10:46 AM
Your suggestion seems interesting. Not a lawyer so absolutely no idea if it will fly.
hair for Dominique Strauss Kahn
jayleno
07-28 10:41 AM
I think you are one of the most sane Amway guy I have heard from. Thanks for all the explanation. Now I know I have a problem with BWW and their approach not Amway. Looks like they are good brainbleachers.
again, i am not with this business now but still think its a good model. it is based on word of mouth advertising, franchising, residual income - everything e-commerce (which is a subject taught at some universities). now add some short sighted people to do the teaching and BINGO.. screwed it up big time.
again, i am not with this business now but still think its a good model. it is based on word of mouth advertising, franchising, residual income - everything e-commerce (which is a subject taught at some universities). now add some short sighted people to do the teaching and BINGO.. screwed it up big time.
more...
chanduv23
09-04 08:06 AM
Please stop this unnecessary useless discussion here. And I am not "_truefacts". Folks, just like how u do IT or medicine, for politicians - politics is a career. They do whatever they can to be in power and in developing countries like India where unfortunately, corrpution still exists. Corrpution exists everywhere in different forms. Don't we all pay for EAD and AP every year because our country is retrogressed? Don't we all pay for MTR when we do everything based on law?
One has to accpept the reality and live with it and try to bring about the change within one's parameters.
People can argue just for the sake of arguements - but the reality is that we are all in it together. If there is an issue that affects all of us, it affects all of us - period. We can argue and counter argue but unless we all get on the same page and understand that there needs to be a solution rather than trask talk, things are not going to change for us.
Lets concentrate on what we are in this organization for.
One has to accpept the reality and live with it and try to bring about the change within one's parameters.
People can argue just for the sake of arguements - but the reality is that we are all in it together. If there is an issue that affects all of us, it affects all of us - period. We can argue and counter argue but unless we all get on the same page and understand that there needs to be a solution rather than trask talk, things are not going to change for us.
Lets concentrate on what we are in this organization for.
hot #39;Strauss-Kahn#39;s pals offered
a_yaja
07-22 01:40 PM
I had green dots till yesterday, but after posting fun stuff on this thread people gave me red dots..... why is that? This tread has zero value, it is like Santa singh jokes.
Looks like people are so serious in their life that they cannot understand difference between fun and real stuff...
This thread was for fun so I posted funny things....pls don't give me red for this
I was heart broken too when I got my first red. And I got it just because I agreed with someone that it is not a good idea to staple new passport and old passport together and suggested to use a rubber band to hold the two passports together. The person who gave me a red said in the comments section "I will surely use a rubber band to hold my passports together." Not sure if he was being sarcastic - but I stopped worrying about red dots now.
Looks like people are so serious in their life that they cannot understand difference between fun and real stuff...
This thread was for fun so I posted funny things....pls don't give me red for this
I was heart broken too when I got my first red. And I got it just because I agreed with someone that it is not a good idea to staple new passport and old passport together and suggested to use a rubber band to hold the two passports together. The person who gave me a red said in the comments section "I will surely use a rubber band to hold my passports together." Not sure if he was being sarcastic - but I stopped worrying about red dots now.
more...
house of Dominique Strauss-Kahn
svr_76
05-12 02:13 PM
I think this forum is the wrong place to discuss any of this. The thread must be deleted.
tattoo IMF chief Dominique Strauss Kahn sex attack victim told brother about
immique
07-17 01:23 AM
I don't agree with your arguement. Spillover can happen in any quarter and you don't need to wait until the last quarter for it to happen. with EB1 and EB2 being current, the spillover into EB2 I and C will start from November/December of 2008 itself
Since no one knows how many of pre 2004 EB2/EB3 are pending for India or ROW, it is very difficult to predict where the PD would be at 2008 november. Whoever feels the numbers less suggests EB2 india PD would move forward, whoever feels the numbers are more suggests it will move slower.
But this is what my assumption is USCIS/DOS would start will less number of Visas for starting of year, let us say 900 for EB2(I) on november 08. There is a possibility that EB3 to EB2 conversion, Missed out old PD cases etc would result in getting EB2 going backwards...This would be the case for first 2 to 3 quarters, even if it moves it would in couple of months.Again based on EB3(ROW) demand next year end EB2(I) may or may not move forward fast.
One thing for sure spill over happens only during the last quarter, be it horizontal or vertical.
But this years move would make some people lucky to get GC even if their PD is in 2006. Again this is all my assumptions..
Since no one knows how many of pre 2004 EB2/EB3 are pending for India or ROW, it is very difficult to predict where the PD would be at 2008 november. Whoever feels the numbers less suggests EB2 india PD would move forward, whoever feels the numbers are more suggests it will move slower.
But this is what my assumption is USCIS/DOS would start will less number of Visas for starting of year, let us say 900 for EB2(I) on november 08. There is a possibility that EB3 to EB2 conversion, Missed out old PD cases etc would result in getting EB2 going backwards...This would be the case for first 2 to 3 quarters, even if it moves it would in couple of months.Again based on EB3(ROW) demand next year end EB2(I) may or may not move forward fast.
One thing for sure spill over happens only during the last quarter, be it horizontal or vertical.
But this years move would make some people lucky to get GC even if their PD is in 2006. Again this is all my assumptions..
more...
pictures Dominique Strauss-Kahn
jhaalaa
01-15 10:36 AM
Hope the AILA and ImmigrationVoice leadership can work together to urge USCIS to post a statement explaining that the guidelines in the memo are initially meant to encourage compliance by the businesses and prevent abuse; and that the USCIS would start enforcing them starting Jan 2012 or later. Thus it may be just a matter of getting used to the extra bureaucracy.
I pray that we all get sorted sooner, so we can start focusing on other important aspects of our careers and family lives.
_____________________for those very concerned____________________
It is easy to tell others to be cool headed to think rationally, but we all agree that its true -so let us try doing so.
I personally believe that most folks shall still be fine - this includes a lot of consulting company folks. We all (everyone having/renewing/aspiring H1) need to start collecting all documentary evidences as mentioned in the memo.
If you do not already do so - start following the guidelines for what USCIS considers as proof of Employer-employee relationships - exchanging weekly status e-mails, work assignments, etc. Also please remember to save these documents more securely (possibly at more than a single location). There could be a few more hassles, for example requesting access to old deleted e-mails from server backups. Start working to get yourself copies of service level agreements and contracts between the various layers of consulting companies - after seeing this memo most HR staff would get cooperative. Provide copies of the memo to your consulting companies sales and placement staff - as they would not want to loose their commissions and thus would help persuade your managers and HR staff to start complying.
_____________________________________________
Best Wishes for all.
I pray that we all get sorted sooner, so we can start focusing on other important aspects of our careers and family lives.
_____________________for those very concerned____________________
It is easy to tell others to be cool headed to think rationally, but we all agree that its true -so let us try doing so.
I personally believe that most folks shall still be fine - this includes a lot of consulting company folks. We all (everyone having/renewing/aspiring H1) need to start collecting all documentary evidences as mentioned in the memo.
If you do not already do so - start following the guidelines for what USCIS considers as proof of Employer-employee relationships - exchanging weekly status e-mails, work assignments, etc. Also please remember to save these documents more securely (possibly at more than a single location). There could be a few more hassles, for example requesting access to old deleted e-mails from server backups. Start working to get yourself copies of service level agreements and contracts between the various layers of consulting companies - after seeing this memo most HR staff would get cooperative. Provide copies of the memo to your consulting companies sales and placement staff - as they would not want to loose their commissions and thus would help persuade your managers and HR staff to start complying.
_____________________________________________
Best Wishes for all.
dresses by Dominique Strauss-Kahn
vjkypally
09-23 05:41 PM
Like I said earlier March is the real bottleneck for year 2005. More than 3000 applications.October bulletin has already moved to Jan22'2005. From other tracking sites there are not too many Feb'2005 applications. But we have plenty of March 2005 applicants. Once it crosses March it will zoom ahead to end of 2005.
But it could be September 2010 by the time it comes to March,2005.
But it could be September 2010 by the time it comes to March,2005.
more...
makeup Dominique Strauss-Kahn
vivid_bharti
05-01 11:02 PM
You post tells me you still didn't understand the difference between LTTE and Srilankan Tamil civilians, probably you are still grief striken because of the loss of your "Beloved PM"..
[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Keeme
Pandey - I no longer wonder why Mulayam/Mayavati/ Lalu and Paswan rule in UP & Bihar.QUOTE]
Keemy this itself shows how intolerant you are . On one side you are trying to profess the cause of people from your community from a different country and on the other hand trying to denigrate people from another region from your own country .
Just because my handle is Pandey you assumed that I am from UP , Bihar and look and behave like the great Mulayam and Lalu and Paswan.
For your information I have never been to UP or Bihar in my life except once as a tourist nor my parents .
Your love for Srilankan Tamils seems to be a lot more than your love for your own countrymen.
Everyone else can decide what you are.
As for me I am an Indian - nothing else nothing more.
To Ms. Rambha - When India interfered in East Pakistan to create Bangladesh don't for a moment believe it was to save the Bangladeshis from suffering . Please read the full war history. In any case we are paying the price for that with more terrorists coming from Bangladesh.
We have paid the price for Srilanka also with IPKF soldiers getting killed in 1987 and then LTTE killing our beloved PM.
Peace.. I am out ..no more postings on this thread where people from my own country write words of hate for me out of their love for foreigners .
[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Keeme
Pandey - I no longer wonder why Mulayam/Mayavati/ Lalu and Paswan rule in UP & Bihar.QUOTE]
Keemy this itself shows how intolerant you are . On one side you are trying to profess the cause of people from your community from a different country and on the other hand trying to denigrate people from another region from your own country .
Just because my handle is Pandey you assumed that I am from UP , Bihar and look and behave like the great Mulayam and Lalu and Paswan.
For your information I have never been to UP or Bihar in my life except once as a tourist nor my parents .
Your love for Srilankan Tamils seems to be a lot more than your love for your own countrymen.
Everyone else can decide what you are.
As for me I am an Indian - nothing else nothing more.
To Ms. Rambha - When India interfered in East Pakistan to create Bangladesh don't for a moment believe it was to save the Bangladeshis from suffering . Please read the full war history. In any case we are paying the price for that with more terrorists coming from Bangladesh.
We have paid the price for Srilanka also with IPKF soldiers getting killed in 1987 and then LTTE killing our beloved PM.
Peace.. I am out ..no more postings on this thread where people from my own country write words of hate for me out of their love for foreigners .
girlfriend Dominique Strauss-Kahn
shree19772000
03-27 02:23 PM
Love to see narendra modi as PM but I know that's far from happening. I would bet on LK for now.
hairstyles Strauss-Kahn ends his message
sankap
07-10 01:06 PM
FYI... Canada has much better public schools and health care...Never mind the high taxes...
bayarea07
07-22 06:03 PM
Good One !!!
While we are all sharing about our Amway solicitation experiences, let me share what I've seen in the last few years.
Background: In the last 6 years, I've been approached over 2 dozen times in the Bay Area. Things got so bad that the same guys have approached me more than 3 times in some cases before realizing that they've already talked to me before.
Incident #1:
A guy approached me while I was at the mall saying "hi" and striking up a conversation. During our short chat, this 20-something desi guy proceeds to tell me that he is the CIO of Fox News. At which time I pull out my iPhone and look him up using my LinkedIn app under the guise of adding him to my network. Turns out he is an engineer at a local company which he covers up by being embarassed and saying "I haven't updated my profile." I joke about how he moved up in his career so quickly - he then makes an excuse and walks away. I never hear from him again. Another reason to love technology!
Incident #2:
I get approached while shopping at the local GAP store. Being a veteran of this form of solicitation, I respond by saying that I work for the San Jose Mercury News and that we are doing a story on Multi-Level Marketing schemes. I ask him if he knows anyone who would be willing to chat on the record. This guys says "Nope, don't know anyone" and walks away. I never see him again...
Incident #3:
I am at the Nike store and get approached by this guy asking me if I work at Google (I do not). I tell him "Nope" and walk away before he can ask me another question. I have been approached by this same guy 2 more times at other stores (within 6 months) asking me similar questions. The 3rd time, I tell him - "We've spoken before - No, I don't work at Google, No, I'm not from Delhi and No, I'm not interested in what you are selling." He is stunned and walks away with his tail between his legs :)
Incident #4:
The local Fry's is a popular hang out for Amway-types. I learned the hard way because I made my first mistakes here. Both guys that struck up a good conversation with me turned out to be Amway types. After the 2nd phone call, I tell them that if they call me again, I will report them to the authorities and Fry's for illegal solicitation and harassment.
This stops both people in their tracks. I never see them at Fry's again!
Bottom-line: Hold your ground, use technology and don't be afraid to kick them around a little bit. Saying "No" is golden!
While we are all sharing about our Amway solicitation experiences, let me share what I've seen in the last few years.
Background: In the last 6 years, I've been approached over 2 dozen times in the Bay Area. Things got so bad that the same guys have approached me more than 3 times in some cases before realizing that they've already talked to me before.
Incident #1:
A guy approached me while I was at the mall saying "hi" and striking up a conversation. During our short chat, this 20-something desi guy proceeds to tell me that he is the CIO of Fox News. At which time I pull out my iPhone and look him up using my LinkedIn app under the guise of adding him to my network. Turns out he is an engineer at a local company which he covers up by being embarassed and saying "I haven't updated my profile." I joke about how he moved up in his career so quickly - he then makes an excuse and walks away. I never hear from him again. Another reason to love technology!
Incident #2:
I get approached while shopping at the local GAP store. Being a veteran of this form of solicitation, I respond by saying that I work for the San Jose Mercury News and that we are doing a story on Multi-Level Marketing schemes. I ask him if he knows anyone who would be willing to chat on the record. This guys says "Nope, don't know anyone" and walks away. I never see him again...
Incident #3:
I am at the Nike store and get approached by this guy asking me if I work at Google (I do not). I tell him "Nope" and walk away before he can ask me another question. I have been approached by this same guy 2 more times at other stores (within 6 months) asking me similar questions. The 3rd time, I tell him - "We've spoken before - No, I don't work at Google, No, I'm not from Delhi and No, I'm not interested in what you are selling." He is stunned and walks away with his tail between his legs :)
Incident #4:
The local Fry's is a popular hang out for Amway-types. I learned the hard way because I made my first mistakes here. Both guys that struck up a good conversation with me turned out to be Amway types. After the 2nd phone call, I tell them that if they call me again, I will report them to the authorities and Fry's for illegal solicitation and harassment.
This stops both people in their tracks. I never see them at Fry's again!
Bottom-line: Hold your ground, use technology and don't be afraid to kick them around a little bit. Saying "No" is golden!
canant
01-14 09:49 PM
Does this effect on POE for existing valid H1b visa for going and coming back to US ?
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