mbartosik
12-13 11:48 PM
Mark,
what say you?
In some states the courts are "Courts of equity and law" or is it "Courts of law and equity", in other words the court has a mandate to enforce fairness within the bounds of the law (NY State is one such state). This derives from English law. However, I do not believe that is the case for federal court.
If the courts were courts only of fairness, equity, what's right, etc., yes, indeed then I think that we would win. But the courts are courts of law. In our case the federal courts are courts of federal law. Congress writes those laws, and the courts are free to interpret those law but not change them. The courts can also throw out a law (this is often appealed to Supreme court). The Supreme court's job is to interpret the constitution, and to define how the lower courts must interpret the law, or to throw back the law to Congress.
We have next to no chance in lower courts.
Even if we appealed through courts up to Supreme court, and win we would loss because Congress would still be free to change the law to restrict in other ways, possibly with the same effect. In the mean time we would alienate those law makers on our side. Also USCIS would be free to stop ALL EB immigration, while the Congress decided how to rewrite the law.
In our case there is no interpretation other than the mess that we are in is the law. So the Supreme court would have to find that the law was against the constitution, which I highly doubt that it is.
Even if the supreme court found that the law was against the constitution, Congress could enact another similar law (akin to minimum sentence), that merely fitted within the framework of the constitution but achieved the same end result. A recent example of this was when the Supreme court found that Gitmo detainees must be given a right to review of their detention. The detainees were not immediately released because they were detained without review and against the constitution, no, Congress simply passed a law allowing review by military tribunal, that complied with the Constitution, and the detainees remained detained, with a totally meaningless review (not allowed to see evidence against them etc.).
Thus the branch of government that we need to convince is Congress (which by the way I think the Constitution or an amendment gives the right to government immigration).
I'm not saying do not fight, just fight smart.
To me fighting smart means going to the law makers, politely, and persuasively. It is not aggressive, it is not radical, but it is fighting wisely. So I don't think that we are backing down in the face of things that are wrong, I think that we are standing up, but intelligently, and fighting where we can win.
It is Congress that ultimately decides, the Supreme court can only say to them, "sorry, not in compliance, try again".
what say you?
In some states the courts are "Courts of equity and law" or is it "Courts of law and equity", in other words the court has a mandate to enforce fairness within the bounds of the law (NY State is one such state). This derives from English law. However, I do not believe that is the case for federal court.
If the courts were courts only of fairness, equity, what's right, etc., yes, indeed then I think that we would win. But the courts are courts of law. In our case the federal courts are courts of federal law. Congress writes those laws, and the courts are free to interpret those law but not change them. The courts can also throw out a law (this is often appealed to Supreme court). The Supreme court's job is to interpret the constitution, and to define how the lower courts must interpret the law, or to throw back the law to Congress.
We have next to no chance in lower courts.
Even if we appealed through courts up to Supreme court, and win we would loss because Congress would still be free to change the law to restrict in other ways, possibly with the same effect. In the mean time we would alienate those law makers on our side. Also USCIS would be free to stop ALL EB immigration, while the Congress decided how to rewrite the law.
In our case there is no interpretation other than the mess that we are in is the law. So the Supreme court would have to find that the law was against the constitution, which I highly doubt that it is.
Even if the supreme court found that the law was against the constitution, Congress could enact another similar law (akin to minimum sentence), that merely fitted within the framework of the constitution but achieved the same end result. A recent example of this was when the Supreme court found that Gitmo detainees must be given a right to review of their detention. The detainees were not immediately released because they were detained without review and against the constitution, no, Congress simply passed a law allowing review by military tribunal, that complied with the Constitution, and the detainees remained detained, with a totally meaningless review (not allowed to see evidence against them etc.).
Thus the branch of government that we need to convince is Congress (which by the way I think the Constitution or an amendment gives the right to government immigration).
I'm not saying do not fight, just fight smart.
To me fighting smart means going to the law makers, politely, and persuasively. It is not aggressive, it is not radical, but it is fighting wisely. So I don't think that we are backing down in the face of things that are wrong, I think that we are standing up, but intelligently, and fighting where we can win.
It is Congress that ultimately decides, the Supreme court can only say to them, "sorry, not in compliance, try again".
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smuggymba
08-02 09:52 AM
Guys! This is getting interesting. Guess what I found!! Now you can find out the names of your local friendly Amway Independent Business owners!!!
Go to https://www.amway.com/Shop/Registration/CustomerRegistration.aspx?Country=US
Scroll down to the section titled "Benefits of Being Affiliated with an Independent Business Owner", select "Show me a list of IBOs in my area that I can select from".... put your zip code and voila!!!!
I put my own zipcode 94536, and most of the names are desi. Confirms my suspicion that there are more desi's sucked into this than........
Now post what you find in your area!
Totally coincidental but all of IBO's in my zip code are Chinese. I know 2-3 desis myself who approached me in walmart and ikea.
Go to https://www.amway.com/Shop/Registration/CustomerRegistration.aspx?Country=US
Scroll down to the section titled "Benefits of Being Affiliated with an Independent Business Owner", select "Show me a list of IBOs in my area that I can select from".... put your zip code and voila!!!!
I put my own zipcode 94536, and most of the names are desi. Confirms my suspicion that there are more desi's sucked into this than........
Now post what you find in your area!
Totally coincidental but all of IBO's in my zip code are Chinese. I know 2-3 desis myself who approached me in walmart and ikea.
Circus123
02-14 01:03 PM
You are eligible to apply on the first business day of March 2008.( which is 1st ) until the last business day of March 2008 (Monday March 31st)I wouldn't wait for March end if I were you ...
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Subst_labor
03-16 01:17 PM
i am not paying anything, its a decent company from NJ. the only thing i am concerned about is that this experience was when i was IN college and it was a really small company (part time thing..)
more...
deepakd
07-11 01:24 PM
BharatPremi,
Same applies to you.. If you are so crazy about Bharat, what are you doing here.... HEHEHE. Just thought that it was kinda funny statement because of your name....BharatPremi --- :D
Guys
On the sameline, I think no one is crazy about anything but material wealth for self.
Take my example, GOV of India spent lot of money on me so that I get a degree from IIT and here I am in USA salivating over GC dreams.
If I would be kicked out of USA, I may move to Canada, if I kicked out of Canada then to Australia and it would continue............
Same applies to you.. If you are so crazy about Bharat, what are you doing here.... HEHEHE. Just thought that it was kinda funny statement because of your name....BharatPremi --- :D
Guys
On the sameline, I think no one is crazy about anything but material wealth for self.
Take my example, GOV of India spent lot of money on me so that I get a degree from IIT and here I am in USA salivating over GC dreams.
If I would be kicked out of USA, I may move to Canada, if I kicked out of Canada then to Australia and it would continue............
gcfriend65
06-28 10:00 AM
So, are you saying that USCIS uses quarterly quota versus monthly quota. According to an earlier post:
Hi Macaca;
This is taken from the July 2000 VB:
HOW THE SYSTEM OPERATES
At the beginning of each month, the Visa Office receives a report from each immigrant visa processing post listing totals of documentarily qualified immigrant visa applicants in categories subject to numerical limitation.
Cases are grouped by foreign state chargeability/preference/priority date. No names are reported. During the first week of each month, this documentarily qualified demand is tabulated.
VO subdivides the annual preference and foreign state limitations which are specified by the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) into twelve monthly allotments. The totals of documentarily qualified applicants reported to VO, and the expected INS demand for numbers, are compared each month with the numbers available for the next regular allotment. This allows for the determination of the monthly cut-off dates, and the allotment of numbers for reported applicants who have priority dates within the newly established cut-off dates.If there are sufficient numbers in a particular category to satisfy all reported documentarily qualified demand, the category is considered "current."
From this it is very clear that the number of Visas available for the rest of the FY 07 is enough to accept as many applications as can be approved in those 3 months(July, Aug and Sep).
I think the 40,000 number is the wastage predicted by the ombudsman at the prior rate of approval that was prevalent earlier in the year. This probably implies that CIS would have used about 100,000 numbers at it's prior rate or about 25000 per quarter. This in turn would imply that CIS would have roughly 40000 (predicted wastage) + 25000 (last quarter's numbers that might have been used had CIS continued at it's earlier pace) = approx 65000 available starting June 1. I highly doubt if this could be used in just a month or two.
But all said and done, whatever the real number of visas that's available I feel it's in everybody's best interest to just apply at the earliest they possibly could.
Hi Macaca;
This is taken from the July 2000 VB:
HOW THE SYSTEM OPERATES
At the beginning of each month, the Visa Office receives a report from each immigrant visa processing post listing totals of documentarily qualified immigrant visa applicants in categories subject to numerical limitation.
Cases are grouped by foreign state chargeability/preference/priority date. No names are reported. During the first week of each month, this documentarily qualified demand is tabulated.
VO subdivides the annual preference and foreign state limitations which are specified by the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) into twelve monthly allotments. The totals of documentarily qualified applicants reported to VO, and the expected INS demand for numbers, are compared each month with the numbers available for the next regular allotment. This allows for the determination of the monthly cut-off dates, and the allotment of numbers for reported applicants who have priority dates within the newly established cut-off dates.If there are sufficient numbers in a particular category to satisfy all reported documentarily qualified demand, the category is considered "current."
From this it is very clear that the number of Visas available for the rest of the FY 07 is enough to accept as many applications as can be approved in those 3 months(July, Aug and Sep).
I think the 40,000 number is the wastage predicted by the ombudsman at the prior rate of approval that was prevalent earlier in the year. This probably implies that CIS would have used about 100,000 numbers at it's prior rate or about 25000 per quarter. This in turn would imply that CIS would have roughly 40000 (predicted wastage) + 25000 (last quarter's numbers that might have been used had CIS continued at it's earlier pace) = approx 65000 available starting June 1. I highly doubt if this could be used in just a month or two.
But all said and done, whatever the real number of visas that's available I feel it's in everybody's best interest to just apply at the earliest they possibly could.
more...
walking_dude
02-13 01:38 PM
It has been repeated 'Ad Nauseam' times. IVs agenda includes all of these -
1) Increasing GC numbers
2) Recapturing numbers and instituting permanent Rollover mechanisms
3) Eliminate country quotas.
IV understands that removing just the country quota will impact ROW badly if visa numbers are not increased in tandem. Hence you always see the three points being proposed together. These 3 have to go together. A compromise between ROW and oversubscribed countries.
But some ROW members keep trying to split the movement by opposing removal of country quotas ( which is point 2 in IV agenda) at every possible opportunity. Real way to build a coalition is through compromise. And in a compromise you can't get all you want. Don't expect the majority to heed all your demands.
Be a little appreciative of the sufferings of others. If you think a little extra time you need to spend in the queue is turning you so angry, what goes in the mind of a person who has to spend twice or thrice as much time in the same queue, for no fault of his/hers?
Don't BS on 'diversity'. There is already a 'diversity visa' which Indians & Chinese cannot use. Want to come under diversity? Apply in the lottery. Be a little humane and think about the suffering of others. May be you'll see the light. You are not going to win many friends by alleging "an agenda by some country". It's preposturous, laughable and Dobbsian ( like Lou Dobbs alleged "invasion by Mexicans")
I don't think removing the per country cap will solve the problem. It will balance retrogression by giving each country equal share of misery while the visa number allocation per year stays the same. It also requires changes in the statute which is almost impossible to happen because the legislators, either Dem. or GOP, will not agree to removing the cap. So let's be realistic.
The best solution is to recapture unused visas from previous years and increase the quota per year.
1) Increasing GC numbers
2) Recapturing numbers and instituting permanent Rollover mechanisms
3) Eliminate country quotas.
IV understands that removing just the country quota will impact ROW badly if visa numbers are not increased in tandem. Hence you always see the three points being proposed together. These 3 have to go together. A compromise between ROW and oversubscribed countries.
But some ROW members keep trying to split the movement by opposing removal of country quotas ( which is point 2 in IV agenda) at every possible opportunity. Real way to build a coalition is through compromise. And in a compromise you can't get all you want. Don't expect the majority to heed all your demands.
Be a little appreciative of the sufferings of others. If you think a little extra time you need to spend in the queue is turning you so angry, what goes in the mind of a person who has to spend twice or thrice as much time in the same queue, for no fault of his/hers?
Don't BS on 'diversity'. There is already a 'diversity visa' which Indians & Chinese cannot use. Want to come under diversity? Apply in the lottery. Be a little humane and think about the suffering of others. May be you'll see the light. You are not going to win many friends by alleging "an agenda by some country". It's preposturous, laughable and Dobbsian ( like Lou Dobbs alleged "invasion by Mexicans")
I don't think removing the per country cap will solve the problem. It will balance retrogression by giving each country equal share of misery while the visa number allocation per year stays the same. It also requires changes in the statute which is almost impossible to happen because the legislators, either Dem. or GOP, will not agree to removing the cap. So let's be realistic.
The best solution is to recapture unused visas from previous years and increase the quota per year.
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gc_lover
06-28 09:51 AM
Hi,
Are they predicting just mid month retrogression or early month retrogression?
Thanks
Actually, they are not predicting anything. All he is saying is that it has happened before to "other worker" category and it can happen again to EB categories.
Are they predicting just mid month retrogression or early month retrogression?
Thanks
Actually, they are not predicting anything. All he is saying is that it has happened before to "other worker" category and it can happen again to EB categories.
more...
Sakthisagar
06-11 09:37 AM
Why are you so worried? Dont be scared, make enough money and dont make silly financial decision. You can take your kitty back if push comes to shove. Economies in India and China are booming and you wont die hungry. I guarantee you that.
Economies in India and China are booming??? booming accroding to their economies not definitely competing with USA what is the value of 1 Indian Rupee in US dollars. just simply dont air some tactics around. As long as 22 Political parties rule India na each one having different agenda Forget about India becoming a developed country.
And don't dump USA as just like that it is also one of the Biggest and Greatest economy in the world, Still till this moment Dollar Rules. full stop.
Economies in India and China are booming??? booming accroding to their economies not definitely competing with USA what is the value of 1 Indian Rupee in US dollars. just simply dont air some tactics around. As long as 22 Political parties rule India na each one having different agenda Forget about India becoming a developed country.
And don't dump USA as just like that it is also one of the Biggest and Greatest economy in the world, Still till this moment Dollar Rules. full stop.
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gondalguru
07-15 11:09 PM
Some one has done a very good analysis in this thread.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4285&page=107
Here is copy and paste of the post by gcobessesed
----------------------------------
Reading this post and the Ron Gotcher numbers, I see some answers for the pending India backlog number question and a silver lining for EB2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drirshad View Post
(Quoting Ron Gotcher) The CIS backlog does not appear to be as serious as I had been told previously. Rather than 600,000 pending employment based AOS cases, it is likely less than 400,000 pending cases.
Quote:
Indian applicants make up approximately 40 to 45 per cent of the entire employment based quota backlog
Therefore, about 160,000 applications are pending for India!
As we have seen before, EB3 and EB2 are almost the same proportion for India with EB3 being slightly higher. So, about 85,000 for EB3 and 75,000 for EB2 are pending.
Quote:
Mr. Oppenheim explained that while the Visa Office initially took the view that visa numbers had to fall down into employment third preference before the could fall across to the individual country quotas, but after further review, additional legislation, and consultation with Congress, they concluded that they have to allocate the fall across within individual preference petitions first.
This means, EB2 will get all unused EB1 visas and EB3 will only get 1/3 of the total 140,000 employment based visas (and 7% per country) until EB2 becomes current.
Also, because 40-45% of the applications are from India, we can assume 40% of the yearly EB1+EB2 *may* be applied to EB2 India. i.e. approximately 35,000 visas per year for India EB2!!!
Putting this in perspective with the pending 75,000 EB2 India applications, we should see all of them approved in the next 3 years. i.e. If your EB2 India priority date is in early 2007, then your I-485 will be approved by 2011, which is fantastic!
If you assume a uniform distribution of applications between Apr 2004 and Apr 2007 (say), it is straightforward to calculate when your date might become current in the next 3 years.
So, according to this, the cut-off date for EB2 India should move towards end of 2004 in the Oct/Nov bulletin. If that happens, then the above argument will be validated.
__________________
I am very confident that EB-2 india will become current in about 14-18 months.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4285&page=107
Here is copy and paste of the post by gcobessesed
----------------------------------
Reading this post and the Ron Gotcher numbers, I see some answers for the pending India backlog number question and a silver lining for EB2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drirshad View Post
(Quoting Ron Gotcher) The CIS backlog does not appear to be as serious as I had been told previously. Rather than 600,000 pending employment based AOS cases, it is likely less than 400,000 pending cases.
Quote:
Indian applicants make up approximately 40 to 45 per cent of the entire employment based quota backlog
Therefore, about 160,000 applications are pending for India!
As we have seen before, EB3 and EB2 are almost the same proportion for India with EB3 being slightly higher. So, about 85,000 for EB3 and 75,000 for EB2 are pending.
Quote:
Mr. Oppenheim explained that while the Visa Office initially took the view that visa numbers had to fall down into employment third preference before the could fall across to the individual country quotas, but after further review, additional legislation, and consultation with Congress, they concluded that they have to allocate the fall across within individual preference petitions first.
This means, EB2 will get all unused EB1 visas and EB3 will only get 1/3 of the total 140,000 employment based visas (and 7% per country) until EB2 becomes current.
Also, because 40-45% of the applications are from India, we can assume 40% of the yearly EB1+EB2 *may* be applied to EB2 India. i.e. approximately 35,000 visas per year for India EB2!!!
Putting this in perspective with the pending 75,000 EB2 India applications, we should see all of them approved in the next 3 years. i.e. If your EB2 India priority date is in early 2007, then your I-485 will be approved by 2011, which is fantastic!
If you assume a uniform distribution of applications between Apr 2004 and Apr 2007 (say), it is straightforward to calculate when your date might become current in the next 3 years.
So, according to this, the cut-off date for EB2 India should move towards end of 2004 in the Oct/Nov bulletin. If that happens, then the above argument will be validated.
__________________
I am very confident that EB-2 india will become current in about 14-18 months.
more...
jayleno
07-22 12:07 PM
Dont you think you took it too far? I dont think you make much sense. There it is, since you asked for my opinion.
Smile - I can prove this is a relevant topic ..how..
Some of these jokers (Quikstar..Amway) have filed GC in EB2 and Eb3 which is illegal, someday states Like Arizona will declare that anyone looking like us should be checked for Amway membership and deported
Profiling is an issue and because of some jokers we all may have to go thru scrutiny.
We should ask USCIS to check all GC applicants name in Amway database and if found USCIS needs to send them to Mexico (because illegal)..
We should write to senators... your opinion on this? ( this way Indiancommunity can be clean and fight for legal hardworking people in immigration policy)
Smile - I can prove this is a relevant topic ..how..
Some of these jokers (Quikstar..Amway) have filed GC in EB2 and Eb3 which is illegal, someday states Like Arizona will declare that anyone looking like us should be checked for Amway membership and deported
Profiling is an issue and because of some jokers we all may have to go thru scrutiny.
We should ask USCIS to check all GC applicants name in Amway database and if found USCIS needs to send them to Mexico (because illegal)..
We should write to senators... your opinion on this? ( this way Indiancommunity can be clean and fight for legal hardworking people in immigration policy)
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immi_enthu
07-26 07:38 PM
Anyone can make money in a ponzi scheme..quixtar people just stalk and talk to strangers and ask for their phone number.
Respect other people. Sorry if this offends you.
When did talking to strangers a crime. If you dont like you can always say no :-) . If you are as ambitious as us come join us and make millions by 40. Otherwise live your fixed income lives .
I wont be offended as I am not with Amway/Quixtar I am just posting on behalf of them for fun :-)
Respect other people. Sorry if this offends you.
When did talking to strangers a crime. If you dont like you can always say no :-) . If you are as ambitious as us come join us and make millions by 40. Otherwise live your fixed income lives .
I wont be offended as I am not with Amway/Quixtar I am just posting on behalf of them for fun :-)
more...
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msp1976
02-18 10:12 PM
I understand that there is concern about people from visitor visa category (Tourist B1 B2)would be filing for green cards and that shall cause the retrogression to be perpetual...a few adjustments to the applicable statute can rectify that...
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grupak
12-14 01:19 PM
I know. I work for a prestigious law firm and I know how hard it is to become a lawyer.
Are you a constitutional lawyer or maybe know someone who can help? Yes, we would appreciate knowledgeable input from experts.
Are you a constitutional lawyer or maybe know someone who can help? Yes, we would appreciate knowledgeable input from experts.
more...
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qplearn
10-04 10:37 AM
Desi companies are to blame but not always.
This is a common practice in big companies. Guess which companies have got the most number of LC's to substitute. It is some of the big software and consulting firms. Myself being a part of one such company have seen a lot of my co-workers use it to get their GC. I will admit though that in big companies it is used after one of the following has happened:
1> You have been stuck in LC stage for a long time.
2> The initial original LC got messed up due to lawyer or company negligence.
3> The I-140 stage got messed up due to lawyer or company negligence.
4> You are an old employee but did not somehow start your GC process till you only had a year or less remaining on your H-1.
Unfortunately for me, none of the above has happened so the company will not use LC substitution for me. But it is a common practice.
Many big companies (I am not referring to desi companies here) use it when they fire a guy for whom they have an approved labor cert. This is the commonest scenario. Until sub labor is banned, and there is no certainty that it will be, we will have to live with this menace.
A person I know was so delighted when his colleague was fired because he got to use his LC; they were doing a very similar job. I am talking about a very large firm in Dallas.
This is a common practice in big companies. Guess which companies have got the most number of LC's to substitute. It is some of the big software and consulting firms. Myself being a part of one such company have seen a lot of my co-workers use it to get their GC. I will admit though that in big companies it is used after one of the following has happened:
1> You have been stuck in LC stage for a long time.
2> The initial original LC got messed up due to lawyer or company negligence.
3> The I-140 stage got messed up due to lawyer or company negligence.
4> You are an old employee but did not somehow start your GC process till you only had a year or less remaining on your H-1.
Unfortunately for me, none of the above has happened so the company will not use LC substitution for me. But it is a common practice.
Many big companies (I am not referring to desi companies here) use it when they fire a guy for whom they have an approved labor cert. This is the commonest scenario. Until sub labor is banned, and there is no certainty that it will be, we will have to live with this menace.
A person I know was so delighted when his colleague was fired because he got to use his LC; they were doing a very similar job. I am talking about a very large firm in Dallas.
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snthampi
07-28 12:18 PM
I was an 'IBO' in the past. did the business for 2 years and quit. so, i am one of those "quitters" as called by up-lines and one of the many reasons why the average yearly income is only $115/year :)
you people are fighting for two totally different reasons
(1) is Amway business illegal for H1Bs? and is Amway business model a ponzi scheme ? been with this business, I can still stand behind the business model - its fair and simple. you just buy from one manufacturer and advertise that to others. if you notice, they are actually advertising Amway Global on national TV. Are the products worth the money you pay is a different subject. can H1Bs do this, i hear yes/no from various sources and that is a separate subject too. this thread is about the bitter experiences and not the business model itself.
(2) Now came BWW (for those of you don't know this term, this is the reason for all your heartaches / broken friendships and bitter experiences).
how do you advertise your product/site ?????
when i joined the business, I have atleast 10 very good friends. I talked to all of them and asked them to understand the business model, and not worry about the advertising part. I took all of them to major conferences (they couldn't say no to me out of friendship and curiosity on what i saw in it despite horror stories) but no one was keen at that time. so, i told them to come and see me when they have some free time and are thinking about making money part-time. no hurry. thats it. no clashes between friends or bad blood. no means no. they are your friends and they will come to you when they are looking. NO HURRY.. thats me.
this is the point where problems start. BWW talks and teaches about doing it NOW. they want us to go through as many people as possible and believe in numbers game. if you show the plan to 100 people, 1 active IBO will join. so, show the plan 3 times a week at-least. that's the motto. when they asked me to go for cold contacting i refused out-right. how can i convince a total stranger when my close friends who believe in me couldn't see it.
most of you are crying foul of people "cold" contacting you with fake smile/friendship while they want you to join the business. but everything has to do with BWW and their methods/CDs/meetings etc. its like a competition. the sooner you grow, they grow. so, they want you to grow as fast as possible. if you have to loose your friends/relatives on the way - your up-lines don't care. they say they are your friends/family. how can that be true ??
to Kushal: I wish you luck with your business. but you have some temper my friend. who are you fighting with ?? folks on an online forum ?? you should know better than to throw stones at someone who doesn't have a name. what are you thinking.. you think you can convince everyone here to believe Amway/quixstar is good ???? seriously ?? only if convincing is that easy ;p
to rest of the team: I know you don't approve the advertising part by randomly meeting people. I didn't do it either and extensive damage is done. people run away from Amway/quixstar like plague because some people want to get rich quick and asked their down-lines to spread the word as fast as they can. "run through people". find 1 person willing to work at the expense of 99 people getting offended by you. word of mouth advertising works both ways. bad publicity spreads faster :)
all I am saying is: people advertised Amway really bad. people hate amway but they should really be mad at BWW and their strategies. it is unfortunate that no one really knows or interested to know what Amway model really is. all they can think of is about horrible experiences of cold contacting and repeated chasing.
again, i am not with this business now but still think its a good model. it is based on word of mouth advertising, franchising, residual income - everything e-commerce (which is a subject taught at some universities). now add some short sighted people to do the teaching and BINGO.. screwed it up big time.
Hi Gopi,
Good post. But tell me why should i give a damn about either Amway or BWW? I don't.
It is horribly insane to talk to your business ambitions to a stranger. Every person is different and I personally take it offensive when someone I don't know comes and bothers me with his/her business nonsense. I am sure there are many people who think in the same way.
In the beginning, whenever a I came across a Desi in a mall or in a public place, it used to make me happy. Now, I always suspect that it could be a Amway SOB who is coming to me with his trash bag.
By the way, Gopi, this is nothing against you personally.
To all Amway street walkers, get the hell out of my way. I don't want to hear your nonsense. Period.
you people are fighting for two totally different reasons
(1) is Amway business illegal for H1Bs? and is Amway business model a ponzi scheme ? been with this business, I can still stand behind the business model - its fair and simple. you just buy from one manufacturer and advertise that to others. if you notice, they are actually advertising Amway Global on national TV. Are the products worth the money you pay is a different subject. can H1Bs do this, i hear yes/no from various sources and that is a separate subject too. this thread is about the bitter experiences and not the business model itself.
(2) Now came BWW (for those of you don't know this term, this is the reason for all your heartaches / broken friendships and bitter experiences).
how do you advertise your product/site ?????
when i joined the business, I have atleast 10 very good friends. I talked to all of them and asked them to understand the business model, and not worry about the advertising part. I took all of them to major conferences (they couldn't say no to me out of friendship and curiosity on what i saw in it despite horror stories) but no one was keen at that time. so, i told them to come and see me when they have some free time and are thinking about making money part-time. no hurry. thats it. no clashes between friends or bad blood. no means no. they are your friends and they will come to you when they are looking. NO HURRY.. thats me.
this is the point where problems start. BWW talks and teaches about doing it NOW. they want us to go through as many people as possible and believe in numbers game. if you show the plan to 100 people, 1 active IBO will join. so, show the plan 3 times a week at-least. that's the motto. when they asked me to go for cold contacting i refused out-right. how can i convince a total stranger when my close friends who believe in me couldn't see it.
most of you are crying foul of people "cold" contacting you with fake smile/friendship while they want you to join the business. but everything has to do with BWW and their methods/CDs/meetings etc. its like a competition. the sooner you grow, they grow. so, they want you to grow as fast as possible. if you have to loose your friends/relatives on the way - your up-lines don't care. they say they are your friends/family. how can that be true ??
to Kushal: I wish you luck with your business. but you have some temper my friend. who are you fighting with ?? folks on an online forum ?? you should know better than to throw stones at someone who doesn't have a name. what are you thinking.. you think you can convince everyone here to believe Amway/quixstar is good ???? seriously ?? only if convincing is that easy ;p
to rest of the team: I know you don't approve the advertising part by randomly meeting people. I didn't do it either and extensive damage is done. people run away from Amway/quixstar like plague because some people want to get rich quick and asked their down-lines to spread the word as fast as they can. "run through people". find 1 person willing to work at the expense of 99 people getting offended by you. word of mouth advertising works both ways. bad publicity spreads faster :)
all I am saying is: people advertised Amway really bad. people hate amway but they should really be mad at BWW and their strategies. it is unfortunate that no one really knows or interested to know what Amway model really is. all they can think of is about horrible experiences of cold contacting and repeated chasing.
again, i am not with this business now but still think its a good model. it is based on word of mouth advertising, franchising, residual income - everything e-commerce (which is a subject taught at some universities). now add some short sighted people to do the teaching and BINGO.. screwed it up big time.
Hi Gopi,
Good post. But tell me why should i give a damn about either Amway or BWW? I don't.
It is horribly insane to talk to your business ambitions to a stranger. Every person is different and I personally take it offensive when someone I don't know comes and bothers me with his/her business nonsense. I am sure there are many people who think in the same way.
In the beginning, whenever a I came across a Desi in a mall or in a public place, it used to make me happy. Now, I always suspect that it could be a Amway SOB who is coming to me with his trash bag.
By the way, Gopi, this is nothing against you personally.
To all Amway street walkers, get the hell out of my way. I don't want to hear your nonsense. Period.
more...
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TeddyKoochu
07-22 12:36 PM
Teddy ... I like your calculation and read all your posting on Calculation thread. This is a fun thread to relax. So don't take it seriously.
If I was bad person then I will try to derail the good thread.
Iam sorry, by OP I meant the original poster of the thread (The person who wrote the first post) not yourself. Your post is perfectly ok like all and its a fun thread. You are a nice guy :). My bad in quoting your post and causing the confusion.
If I was bad person then I will try to derail the good thread.
Iam sorry, by OP I meant the original poster of the thread (The person who wrote the first post) not yourself. Your post is perfectly ok like all and its a fun thread. You are a nice guy :). My bad in quoting your post and causing the confusion.
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gc_kaavaali
01-22 02:01 PM
I pity people who have coming to USA is foremost objective. In my case, i came to USA 7 years ago. Atleast i earned few bucks. But people who are dreaming about USA and taking education loans with the intention to payoff once they land in USA. It also includes people coming here on F1 with intention to work here. I feel really sorry!!!
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GCOffice
09-28 10:51 PM
Hi ,
My husband is a GC holder. For some family reasons we would like to stay in INDIA for couple of years(or maximum time we can). I know we have to apply for a reentry permit. Is it a tough one to get and how early should we apply for it.
Thanks in advance
My husband is a GC holder. For some family reasons we would like to stay in INDIA for couple of years(or maximum time we can). I know we have to apply for a reentry permit. Is it a tough one to get and how early should we apply for it.
Thanks in advance
jaane_bhi_do_yaaro
08-18 04:43 PM
Could not have said it better. Atleast we who have been fortunate to see "outside world" have to consider these actors/actresses as ordinary human beings. I would rather say that it is good that this guy was held up for 2 hours. He mentioned that he was taken into a room where several other asians were also present waiting for help. I really hope the guy realizes that not everybody in the world knows him. If on the other hand he had invested his money in creating a sharukh's village for the orphans or done some other huge charity work (not just for income tax evasion) I would have felt sad but even then not terrible as many feel now.
LESSON THAT WE LEARNT:: EVERYONE GETS TO BE EQUAL SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE....
Dont be too much awed by these artists. They rake in millions but give back VERY VERY LITTLE. So why would be even thinking about them more than the average business person????..
PS:- Dont misunderstand this as a statement arising out of jealosy or insecurity but it is JUST THE REALITY WHICH HOPEFULLY WE WILL ALL REALIZE ONE DAY.
I agree that it can happen to anybody. It happened to VDL Rao too!!!
He was questioned for his accurate predictions at LAX and NY Airport every time he landed.
But great thing is VDL Rao did not make any publicity out of that. He remained quiet as he is on this forum.
Jai Ho VDL Rao!
LESSON THAT WE LEARNT:: EVERYONE GETS TO BE EQUAL SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE....
Dont be too much awed by these artists. They rake in millions but give back VERY VERY LITTLE. So why would be even thinking about them more than the average business person????..
PS:- Dont misunderstand this as a statement arising out of jealosy or insecurity but it is JUST THE REALITY WHICH HOPEFULLY WE WILL ALL REALIZE ONE DAY.
I agree that it can happen to anybody. It happened to VDL Rao too!!!
He was questioned for his accurate predictions at LAX and NY Airport every time he landed.
But great thing is VDL Rao did not make any publicity out of that. He remained quiet as he is on this forum.
Jai Ho VDL Rao!
Rb_newsletter
01-13 03:35 PM
I just heard from attorney there are lot of debate going on in AILA and they are trying to stop this memo from being implemented...they are the one going to lose more business then the body shops....
AILA should. I heard a lots of para legal staffs are already lost their jobs. Because there were less H1, and GC filings. Actually there is a huge economy based on immigration. If USCIS just changes the rules as they want that would affect lots of US citizens not just few immigrants.
Lets see which businesses/people are making money out of immigration related activities.
1) Attorney
2) Paralegal staff
3) Shipping guys (usps, fedex, etc)
4) Airlines (because immigrant workers has to visit their home country periodically)
5) Consulate
6) USCIS
7) Contractors in USCIS
8) Port of Entry/customs staffs
9) Notaries
10) Doctors/hospitals for getting medical clearance for 485, etc
11) Passport photo shops
12) Airport staffs
13) ....
AILA should. I heard a lots of para legal staffs are already lost their jobs. Because there were less H1, and GC filings. Actually there is a huge economy based on immigration. If USCIS just changes the rules as they want that would affect lots of US citizens not just few immigrants.
Lets see which businesses/people are making money out of immigration related activities.
1) Attorney
2) Paralegal staff
3) Shipping guys (usps, fedex, etc)
4) Airlines (because immigrant workers has to visit their home country periodically)
5) Consulate
6) USCIS
7) Contractors in USCIS
8) Port of Entry/customs staffs
9) Notaries
10) Doctors/hospitals for getting medical clearance for 485, etc
11) Passport photo shops
12) Airport staffs
13) ....
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